Off to the Valley

Joseph Lee: I grew up in
a, an immigrant family.

We didn't have a lot financially and uh,
I think that kind of drove a fire in me

to like strive for financial literacy.

I was around 14, 15 and it was
essentially buying and selling and

arbitraging electronics on Craigslist.

And did you drop out of university?

I think I had about six classes.

Before I, uh, dropped out,

Prateek Panda: you had a great
launch with super demo 2000 odd

users in the first few months.

A launch

Joseph Lee: isn't a singular moment.

Like we would do the work of pitching
it and building the demo for like

key stakeholders and key people.

And once you have like the first
like microcosm of users that love

and champion the tool, I think
for a viral product it amplifies.

I have conviction in the product
and the team that we can grow at a

venture scale, a venture pace while.

Being profitable.

You give up optionality for the business
once you build up enough of a capital

pool, giving ourselves the room to
run in whatever direction we wanted.

I think that's what we want it to go for.

Prateek Panda: Hello and welcome back
to Off To the Valley, the podcast where

we uncover the journeys of entrepreneurs
and change makers from around the.

I'm your host Pratik Panda, and today
I'm very excited to welcome Joseph Lee,

an inspiring entrepreneur, builder, and
the co-founder and CEO of super demo.

Joseph's journey began at just 15
creating businesses that led him

to drop out of university and dive
head first into entrepreneurship.

After launching Super Demo in 2023, he
quickly grew the platform to over 2000

users in just the first five months.

And Super Demo is transforming how teams
create interactive demos, revolutionizing

product demonstrations across
industries and Joseph's story is one of

ambition, growth, and relentless drive.

To build something meaningful.

And Joseph, it's a pleasure
to have you on the show.

Um, I met you, uh, almost
by chance in Vancouver.

Um, uh, but I'm really excited that
you could take our time to be with us.

Joseph Lee: Yeah, no,
thanks for having me.

And, and that was a very flattering intro.

I don't know if it's all
deserved, but, uh, thank you.

Prateek Panda: I'm sure
you deserve even more.

So, one thing that I found out new about
you, um, is that your entrepreneurship

journey started really early.

Um, and almost at the age of 15.

How did that happen?

Where were you?

Um, I know you've, uh, you have roots
in, um, South Korea and then in Canada.

Tell us a little bit
about Joseph as a person.

Your background, your childhood.

Joseph Lee: Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

So I grew up in, uh, I was born and
I grew up in, uh, Seoul, South Korea.

And I, I lived there until the
first, uh, seven years of my life.

So, um, I think old enough to kind of
have roots and understand the culture

and kind of have an identity in, in
Korea, uh, but young enough to kind

of also have a Canadian identity in,
in Vancouver when I, when I moved.

But, uh, yeah, I grew up in
a, in an immigrant family.

Uh.

We didn't have a lot financially and, uh,
I'd always seen my parents kind of, uh,

work really hard to, to make ends meet.

And, um, uh, I think that kind of drove
a fire in me to like strive for financial

literacy and independence and, and kind
of set myself up at a very young age.

Um, and I kind of dove into
entrepreneurship, not necessarily.

Thinking I wanted to be an entrepreneur,
like a lot of people, but, uh, just

very naturally I threw through ambition.

Um, I was doing a lot of
entrepreneurial things.

So I, you know, the, the, the first
business that you kind of spoke of?

Uh, yeah.

I was around 15, uh, 14, 15.

And it was essentially buying and
selling and arbitraging electronics.

On Craigslist.

So I would, uh, take my pocket
money from all the birthdays

that I've, uh, saved up from.

And, uh, I would buy like phones and
tablets and different electronics in bulk

from kind of distressed, uh, retailers.

And, uh, I would, I would essentially
take the bus and meet people in parking

lots and, and sell 'em off, uh, for
like 50, a hundred percent, 200% profit.

Um, and, uh, I wouldn't really call it a,
a business, but it did pay, uh, through

my university, uh, which is, uh, really

Prateek Panda: cool.

Joseph Lee: That's awesome.

Um, and did you drop out of

Prateek Panda: university?

Joseph Lee: I, I did.

I did.

So again, unintentional.

Uh, but, uh, yeah, I think I had about six
classes left before I, uh, dropped out.

Why did you decide to drop out?

Um, I think the biggest thing
was, uh, opportunity cost.

Um, at that point, my, uh, co-founder
of that company, uh, it was called the

Coastline Market, and we were building
essentially North America's first

predictive marketplace for seafood.

So very esoteric, a very niche, but, uh,
we were building in this space and we just

started to build more and more conviction.

I initially started as a side
project, um, and then, uh, as.

With most startups, I think it was
a snow snowball effect where we

got one customer and then we ended
up getting an investor on board.

And then we got into an accelerator.

Um, and uh, as I think we were like 21
at the time, we kind of asked ourselves

like, what is really the harm in taking
a couple months off of university?

And just like seeing
where this goes, I think.

The worst thing is it's gonna fail
and we're gonna learn a whole ton,

uh, and grow as professionals.

And in the best case, we're
gonna build a thriving business.

So that was kind of the
opportunity cost that I looked at.

And um, yeah, I intended to pause
university, not necessarily drop out.

Uh, and like 10 years later here
I'm having gone back to school.

Prateek Panda: There are a lot
of people in that, uh, similar

situation and I want to get your
thoughts on this, but also because.

Interestingly, you have Asian background.

Um, it reminds me of my time where
even, um, when I was young, I, I

was pretty certain that I wanted
to become an entrepreneur, but, uh,

sometimes Asian households sort of
make it a a lot more difficult to

do or go the path of the unknown.

Um, how was it for you?

Did you, were you.

Yeah.

Did you get a good supportive environment
for that decision or did you have to,

you know, work your way through it?

Joseph Lee: Yeah.

Uh, no.

I think, uh, I, I'm very, very lucky
to have the family that I do, and my

parents were extremely generous and
supportive throughout the whole process.

Um, and I think part of that is,
um, and yes, they like kind of

bucked the traditional like Asian
East Asian family trend of, uh.

Pushing people to be a doctor or a lawyer.

But I think part of that was, uh, they
grew up in that environment themselves.

Mm-hmm.

So they grew up with parents that
pushed them to like work really

hard and stress and go through the
educational system, which, uh, I know

whether it's Korea or Japan or India,
very, very rigorous and competitive.

Right.

So I think they didn't want that for
their kids and they wanted, uh, to

push them towards like an alternative
path that they've really enjoyed.

So.

I, I was always very fortunate.

They always supported me like
100% regardless of what I did.

Prateek Panda: That, that's amazing.

Yeah.

So for folks who are listening to this
and who might be in that situation where.

Either they're contemplating not going
to university at all or who are already

there and still sort of thinking
that this seems like a waste of time.

Uh, in your experience, how would you
advise them to take this decision?

Joseph Lee: I, I, I think, I
don't think you can paint this

question with like a broad brush.

I, I think it depends.

I think some people have a lot of like
well-rounded experiences before coming

into university and maybe for them, um.

University isn't as pertinent or,
or valuable, but, um, for others, I

think, um, not necessarily the subject
matter, but just the fact of like being

independent and like going off on your
own and networking and meeting people,

uh, and growing up and being an adult.

I think that's very, very formative.

Uh, and.

Uh, I would say I probably wouldn't have
even started a business or been, um,

successful without say, going through
university for the first two years

and getting kind of good grounding.

Um, I think there are diminishing returns,
um, that I found after, like, say two

years or three years of university.

Um, I think like four years or
five years for universities.

A bit of an arbitrary
number that they set.

I think you take a lot of learnings
like upfront, front loaded, um.

But I would say it depends.

Uh, it depends.

But it's also like, I don't think
you need to look at everything like

black and white, as in how is this
gonna benefit me, like career wise.

Uh, you're also living life for
experiences and this is like a

once in a kind of lifetime, uh,
experience, like going to university

as a young teenager or early twenties
and kind of living that life.

I, I wouldn't trade that away
just so I can get a little bit

of career gain or like, you know,
advancing it by a year or two.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

Um, it sort of reminds me like, like you
said, um, there is no one way to paint

this story, and in my experience I feel.

University is actually one of the
best times to start a company, uh,

because you can, it's also the best
place to be able to find co-founders.

There might be other people
who have the same energy.

The, um, the cost of starting
the business is much lower.

Because you have much less
things at stake, right?

So you're in university, you're
spending a lot of time together.

If you live on campus, that's even better.

Uh, you know, the whole dorm
room startup idea, uh, works

because you spend so much time.

Um, and if you can find your
co-founders and work on your idea

while going to a few classes and still
having fun, I think it's one of the

best, uh, ways to start a company.

Uh, I agree for sure.

Alright.

You've started a lot of
different companies, very

different ideas, uh, right.

So I want to know your thought
process and your process actually

of evaluating ideas and then
figuring out a plan for execution.

Like how do you approach this?

Joseph Lee: Yeah, and uh, I think
my process for this has shifted

dramatically, I think over the years.

I think in the beginning,
um, it was very much.

Being naive and jumping into whatever
I thought was an exist, like a exciting

concept and just like putting my
heads down and like brute forcing it.

Um, and I think a lot of young
people do it and there's an

element of that that is great.

'cause I think having an element of
naivety, it's gonna, you're not gonna

think about all the things that could
go wrong and think about the friction

and you're just gonna take the risk.

And as you get older, I think the
pendulum swings completely on the

other side, as you mentioned, uh,
Pratik, you have more to lose.

You have a mortgage, you have family.

Um, so I think you become more risk
averse and you just don't take that

first step, even if you have data.

Um, now I'd like to kind of take
a pragmatic, like in the middle

approach where uh, I try to
assess, uh, the market dynamics.

'cause number one, I think.

The viability of the market and the pace
of growth of the market is always gonna

like Trump the founder's execution.

Like we see this now in ai, right?

You're just, if you're in ai,
you find more success than being

in like a conventional industry.

So is the market growing?

Is the opportunity space big?

Is it a big tam?

Um, uh, does the growth motion make sense?

Can I actually scale like
distribution to customers?

And, uh, obviously peeling back the
layers and understanding, is this

actually a pain, pain point worth solving?

Right.

So the, the question that
I always ask myself is, um.

Where does this pain that I'm solving
with the product fit within, like

the priority list of the customer?

Uh, if it's top three, they're
probably doing it themselves.

If it's like 4, 5, 6, I think
that's a great opportunity space.

'cause it's painful enough that
they would probably pay to solve it.

Uh, but it's not like something they're
immediately trying to do themselves.

And if you, if you talk to enough
customers and you find that

pattern across, uh, a, a greater
birth of of users, then I think.

That would give me enough conviction
and say, Hey, like, let's dig

deeper and peel back, uh, further
and focus on this problem.

And the other aspect is
just founder fit, right?

Like, do I have what it takes to,
um, build in this space, right?

Like, I would love to build lunar
lunar rockets, but like, I, I'm

not smart enough to do that.

I, I just like, I, I'm gonna
disqualify myself from those

opportunity spaces like every time.

Uh, but B2B SaaS, like PLG, like a
hundred percent, I think, uh, like I have.

Uh, more so what it takes.

Um, so yeah.

Prateek Panda: Got it.

Talking about PLG, um.

You had a great launch with super demo
2000 odd users in the first few months.

Um, great achievement, right?

What was the process of
planning this launch?

Um, can you walk us through what
defines a good launch for you?

Joseph Lee: Yeah.

Um, and I would preface, uh,
by saying there isn't a launch

isn't a singular moment.

It's like your growth trajectory.

I think looking back, you can always like.

Be biased and tie it to a singular moment.

But as you know, as an entrepreneur
particularly, it's a microcosm of a

million different things that you did
that bubbled up to one kind of moment.

Um, but I would say in the beginning
what worked really well for us was,

um, let's reduce the friction for
people to try our tool, evaluate our

tool, and find value with our tool.

Uh, and what that entailed for us
is let's do the work for people.

Right.

Uh, let's make this not
a lukewarm, like sure.

But like, uh, hell yeah.

There's no reservations as to
why we shouldn't try the tool.

And what that means is like we
would do the work of pitching it

and building the demo for like,
key stakeholders and key people.

We will audit it for them, we'll,
like iterate with them and essentially

handhold it throughout the entire process.

Uh, and essentially brute force and ensure
that they find success with the tool.

Uh, and once you have like the first.

Like microcosm of users that love
and champion the tool, I think for

a viral product that has kind of
loops embedded into our product.

'cause obviously you create demos to
share with customers, clients, uh,

staff, uh, and then they try it and
they share it, et cetera, et cetera.

Um.

It, it amplifies from there.

So for us it was like, let's reduce the
friction and like do all of the work for

them and we'll do all the fundamentals.

Like the low hanging fruit of
building an exceptional product.

You have to have an
exceptional product first.

Uh, but let's do that work for
them and let's handhold, even

if it financially doesn't make
sense for like a $50 subscription.

Prateek Panda: So I have a couple
of follow up questions on that.

Yeah.

But first you said the first
and foremost requirement is to

build an exceptional product.

A lot of founders also.

Continue to stay stuck in that
build process where they're

always like finessing the
product and delaying the launch.

How do you find that right
balance where, you know, okay,

the product is ready for launch.

Joseph Lee: Uh, that's,
that's really, really tough.

Uh, and that whole paradigm is completely
shifted, I think, in the last year or two.

'cause before it was like, you know,
if you're not at, what is it, Reid,

uh, Reid Hoffman saying like, if
you're not embarrassed by your first

product, you've shipped too late.

Um.

That doesn't hold anymore.

Right.

I think like stuff, the velocity of
building and the fidelity of like

products you can create using ai, it's
like completely upended that statement.

Um, I think it depends, it depends on
the industry, it depends on the ICP.

Um, I think for us, for example,
um, we wanted like the core

experience of like the recording
and editing and sharing to be.

Like near flawless, but like the
design, the ux, different things

here and there, like auxiliary
features, bells and whistles.

Um, they could be a little bit
like rough around the edges.

What we wanted is let's get the
basics completely right so that

the majority of our, uh, users
have an exceptional experience.

Um, and everything else we
will not worry about, um, for

a different type of product.

Say like if you're building in FinTech.

You actually can't have anything
be rough around the edges, like

tied to like the movement of money.

Right?

Right.

Because that's like your core product.

So I would say, uh, it depends,
but, uh, the core, the core

experience has to be exceptional.

And everything around that, I think
you can maybe play with a little bit.

Prateek Panda: Sounds good.

I'm gonna go back to what we were
talking about before, which was

around launch and I, I witnessed super
demo being launched on Product Hand.

Uh, I'm sure there were other things
that were happening in the background.

Can you walk us through what was your
sort of step-by-step launch plan like?

What are things that you.

Joseph Lee: Um, so we did
a million different things.

So number one, uh, our product, uh,
we were building in like viral loops,

making it really easy for someone
to recognize when they were sent to

super demo that it was a super demo
and they could sign up very easily.

Um, we set up a reverse trial where they
could like, explore the product fully

without a credit card, um, access all
of the higher, uh, plan features without

having to opt in so that they could just.

Try before they buy, essentially.

Uh, so like building in viral loops,
making the product, um, uh, more

shareable, easily accessible was one.

Uh, one was obviously just, uh,
investing in SEO early and often.

So I think, uh, how we think about
SEO, it's like a 401k or A-T-F-S-A

for Canadians, uh, that compounds over
time, uh, rather than like paying rent.

Um, so I think the earlier you start and.

Start creating thought leadership and
start creating content that is valuable,

um, the more you're gonna like benefit
and the more it's going to compound.

So for us, uh, what that meant was.

Number one, pri primarily like
focusing on bottom of funnel,

like high intent searches.

So search terms, uh, geared towards
competitors and, and solutions that

people already knew in the market.

And piggybacking off of those, uh,
and also focusing on like very top of

funnel, um, search queries where, uh,
we could put our product like embedded.

Uh, and put it front and
center where people could

kind of experience it as well.

So, um, I have a ton of like, I think,
uh, posts around this, so I can share

this in the show notes if possible.

But, um, yeah, SEO was, it was one.

Um, product hunt and different
launch and different directories.

Obviously that's kind of a low hanging
fruit that we, uh, took advantage

of and, and just, uh, yeah, doing
things that don't scale, uh, just

doing the work for them when we get,
um, like a product update email from.

Uh, like a, a company that we wanna work
with, say like Shopify taking the extra

five minutes to respond to that product,
update email with the super demo saying,

Hey, like, this was a really cool update.

Um, it would've been even better if you
embedded this like super demo of how to

use that feature to better drive adoption.

Feel free to use this version or you
can duplicate it and create your own.

So taking like little, little steps like
that I think make a very big difference.

Obviously not very scalable, but if you're
trying to establish your footprint, um,

I think those are very easy tactics that
you can do and should do as a founder.

'cause it's only the
founder that's gonna do it.

Like the larger organization's
not gonna do it.

Speaker 4: Right.

Joseph Lee: That's

Prateek Panda: amazing.

I really like that idea.

Um, okay, so.

Can you tell us a little bit more
about, product Hunt has been one of

the popular platforms for launches.

It's seen a variety of different
experiences over the years.

Um, how was your launch
experience on Product Hunt?

Do you still think it's a good, uh,
platform to launch your product?

Joseph Lee: I, I do.

I I do think it's a great, uh, platform.

Uh, we haven't launched in the
last little while, but what I would

say is I think too many people,
uh, see part content as a crutch.

For like solving their problems,
like solving their distribution

problem or solving like a poor
product experience, to be frank.

So I think.

You can't look at it as like a, a, like
a pill that's gonna solve those things.

Um, take it for what it is, um, and use
it as a way in a, in a gateway for like

soliciting feedback, getting your name out
there, building some quality back links

and don't like over obsess, uh, I think
over like finishing for second or third.

Um, but obsess over getting like
tangible feedback and tangible

eyeballs that are gonna help you.

Down the line, not specifically during
the launch, but a month, two months,

three months, uh, down the road.

So, uh, as long as you are realistic about
like what you can expect from it, um.

I think it's highly valuable, but I
would also, again say it depends on the

type of business that you're running.

Uh, with my first company, uh, you
know, commerce and operations platform

for food distributors, I, I just
wouldn't launch on product hunt it,

it would, doesn't make any sense.

Uh, but for our niche of like B2B
SaaS, we've worked with startups

all the way to enterprises.

It makes a ton of sense, right?

People can try it out and there's no like
Gate, they don't need to book a demo.

They can just sign up directly
from Product Hunt to start using.

That's where it starts to
make a little bit more sense.

Um, so you would have
to ask that question.

I would say, um, in
internally, intrinsically.

Yeah.

Prateek Panda: Great.

That's great advice.

Um, super demo.

Primary use case is to build
really great product demos.

But have you seen, uh, it being used in
ways when you thought, like, I have no

idea why people are using it for this?

Joseph Lee: Yeah.

Uh, well, I think, I think there's
a common misconception that like

only, uh, salespeople have this need
to like, create exceptional demos.

But if you really think about like,
knowledge workers around the world.

Uh, and they don't necessarily
even have to like be in

software or have tech products.

Uh, but whether it's teaching someone
to a colleague or a new employee,

um, onboarding a new customer onto
like new features, showcasing like

the aha moments of your product
on like a website product tour.

Uh, yeah, sales follow ups, uh,
any knowledge worker has this

innate me to like, demonstrate how
products work, how workflow works.

In a visual way, especially now, I think
attention spans are like dwindling.

People don't wanna watch a two
minute video, three minute video.

They probably see the timestamp and
click off right away most of the time.

And it's notoriously hard to create.

So I think, um, uh.

It's very applicable to
many different use cases.

And to answer your question, yeah, we,
we've seen a ton of different ones.

We've seen like partnerships, we see
a lot of people using it for like

auditing, like for example, agencies
use it to like audit products or

they'll click through someone's product
and tool tip hotspots on like what

they should improve about copy or ux.

We'll see if for like
prototyping where a PM will.

Like, click through their Figma
or use our Figma plugin to like

click through and be like, oh,
actually, uh, this should be here.

Or this, like, um, the copy
should be changed, or this like,

workflow doesn't make sense.

Um, but we've seen like everything,
all types of different, uh, use cases.

Prateek Panda: That's great.

Um, so switching gears a little
bit, uh, let's talk, uh, a little

about the Canadian tech ecosystem.

Uh, when you and I met maybe a year
ago, uh, in Vancouver, I had just

recently moved to Vancouver from San
Francisco, and one of the things we

were chatting about is how, uh, you
know, there is a different pace to

life in Vancouver, which is also nice.

And I was actually really enjoying that.

And the, I still spend easily.

Close to six months a year in the
US just between different travel.

Hmm.

Um, and I keep going to places like
San Francisco or New York, um, to get

this pump of energy and then come back
and get into build mode in Vancouver.

Um, what you've, you
recently moved to New York.

What has been your experience, um,
having spent almost a year in New

York, what differences are you seeing?

Um.

Go ahead and share some more.

Joseph Lee: Well, I mean, first of all,
the two cities are like night and day.

When it comes to differences, I, I
wouldn't say it's like a better or worse.

Um, but I think for the pace of life that
I live and the ambition that I have, uh,

I would say New York is a much better
fit, um, especially at my current age.

Um, I think, uh, for me,
my decision matrix was.

Hey, it's hard enough building
a business, very, very hard,

building and scaling a company.

Um, why make it harder by not
being in a high density area with.

Uh, like the, the right confluence
of luck opportunity in people, right?

Just by being here, you're just gonna
get lucky and be exposed to more

ambitious people, more circles through
osmosis, just learn a lot faster.

Um, so I think for a younger person
that is, um, very, very ambitious,

uh, for me it was like a no brainer.

And, and that is a little bit sad
to say, and I, I'm not gonna say

like, you can't do that in Vancouver.

I'm just saying the, uh, the chances of
doing that and the, the ease of doing

that is just gonna be, uh, more relevant
in New York versus, um, Vancouver.

Prateek Panda: Yeah.

People, founders talk a lot about
when they speak about their past

and, you know, the experience.

Uh, a lot of it comes down to
serendipity and, uh, that happens.

A lot more easily in places like
San Francisco and New York because

of all the reasons that you said.

Um, you've talked a little bit about
the potential of the Canadian tech

ecosystem and what changes you would like
to see to support more entrepreneurs.

Um, now that you are getting
a more firsthand experience

of things in New York, um.

Do you have any new sort of
ideas and thoughts on, um, you

know, there's the whole build in
Canada sort of movement going on.

Um, how do we encourage more, uh, founders
to build successful startups in Canada?

Joseph Lee: I think number one, I
think the talent is absolutely there.

Like some of the smartest people
I know, uh, are in Canada.

Um, in fact, like when I, and I, when I
meet people from like Harvard and Stanford

and all these different, like, you know.

Uh, high caliber colleges and that
are like now in the tech ecosystem.

Uh, I'm, I'm conversing and, and working
with them and really there's no difference

between them and, uh, like a high caliber
person from UBC or Waterloo or uh, McGill.

Um, and I think number one is
structurally I think the ecosystem

needs to improve, um, uh, all the way
down from like the funding landscape.

Um, celebrating entrepreneurs
and the risk appetite.

I think, um, we too much celebrate like
jobs and following the system, uh, in

Canada, like getting a big tech job.

And that is kind of seen as
the holy grail versus I think.

Entrepreneurship is more embedded and
celebrated, um, within the US ecosystem.

So I think, uh, it's not the people.

I think the structurally
the system needs to change.

Um, people need to get paid more as well.

We need to have like more successes in
Canada, where from that success it's

gonna stem and seed like brand new
startups and brand new opportunities.

And you just need people, like
smarter people building in Canada.

So that, again, like by, by
osmosis, you look over at.

Sarah next to me and be like, oh, Sarah
built a $400 million company and sold it.

She's not very different from me.

Like, how, how come I can't do it?

And then you have that
ambition and just do it.

It's just that density
is, uh, somewhat missing.

Um, which is hard.

'cause uh, yeah, like the analogy
I would use is if you're like an

exceptional, uh, you know, American
football player, for example, living

in Canada and you just wanna make it,
um, you wanna go to the best league.

Yeah, and you wanna get paid
the most and you wanna have

the highest odds of success.

So you're just gonna go to
the US and play in the NFL.

The CFL is an option, but until
the CFL as an organization gets

more viewership and structurally
builds a better system to support

athletes, the FL is always gonna win.

Right?

Prateek Panda: Great.

So I want to switch gears once
again and, uh, we, we'll do a very

quick sort of, uh, rapid fire before
I ask you a few last questions.

Sure.

Um, so if, if you're ready for it,
um, whatever comes to your mind.

Right.

Um, what's one startup myth you
wish people would stop believing in

Joseph Lee: B2B is tough to build in.

I don't know if that's like a universal,
uh, uh, notion that people have,

but, um, a lot of people are like.

I guess more enamored by building for B2C.

And it's more exciting, it's more sexy,
but I think if you wanna increase your

odds of success just building for other
businesses, uh, it's way, way easier

structurally to, to build and scale.

Prateek Panda: Great.

Uh, if you could switch lives
with any other entrepreneur

for a day, who would that be?

Joseph Lee: Oh, for a day.

I mean, I would have to go back and,
and pick Steve Jobs, uh, but, uh.

Yeah.

Why?

Um, I think, uh, just, uh, the visionary,
the, um, aspects of, of how he worked

and like his collaboration style.

I think just by being there and
like absorbing through osmosis, like

how he interacted with people, how
he empowered people, how he kept

people accountable the right way.

Uh, I probably would've
learned, uh, a lot there.

Prateek Panda: What's, uh, something
unconventional that you've done

to get your business noticed?

Joseph Lee: Um, uh, a lot.

Um, so one was obviously like doing
things that don't scale, right?

Like I would, uh, respond
to product updates.

I would post on Reddit, I would
go to conferences alone, right?

I would like go by myself wearing
the super demo t-shirt and just

walk the, walk the floor and
talk to people and pitch people.

It's very daunting.

Uh, you feel a little sleazy doing
it, but you just gotta do whatever it

takes to get your name out Initially.

Prateek Panda: If Super demo had
a superpower, what would it be?

Joseph Lee: I would say brand.

We've built an a, an incredible
brand that is recognized within our

category as one of the leaders and,
uh, that has helped, uh, immensely

with, uh, distribution as well.

Prateek Panda: That's awesome.

Uh, this next question is, I don't
know if people ask that a lot, but

what's one worst piece of advice that
you've gotten as an entrepreneur?

Joseph Lee: Um.

Raise when you can.

So a lot of, a lot of investors will,
and, and founders will say like, when

you can just raise as much as you can
and because you never know how much

money you'll need, I think that has like
completely shifted in the age of ai and we

have obviously ignored that advice fully.

Um, yeah.

Prateek Panda: So that answer actually
gives us a good segue to maybe a couple

of last questions that I'll ask you.

Uh, you've almost sort of
built super demo bootstrapped.

Um, what was the hypothesis behind that?

Is it something by choice?

You've got tremendous traction.

I believe that if you wanted
to raise money, you could.

So what's the thought process there?

Joseph Lee: Yeah, uh, I mean there,
there's definitely inbound and,

uh, some incredible investors
that have reached out, uh,

regularly over the last few months.

But I would say, um, part of
this came with experience.

Uh, I would say with my first
startup, we were overcapitalized for

the amount of traction that we had.

Uh, we raised way too much, way too soon.

Uh, and one of the problems
with that is, um, you give up

optionality for the business, right?

Once you build up enough.

Of a capital pool, there's like a
preference stack you need to like surpass

in order to even make money on a sale.

Um, and the expectations also change
as you raise more the expectations,

growth rate, everything is higher.

Uh, so, uh, for me it was, uh, more a
matter of, hey, like I have conviction

in the product and the team, um, that
we can grow at a venture scale, a

venture pace of double digits every
single month while being profitable.

And I think in the age of
ai, it allows us to do that.

And the key thing that it
unlocks for us is optionality

hard enough, building a company.

Um.

Even harder when you have to
build a billion dollar outcome.

And, and that's the only
way anyone makes money.

Uh, if you're pragmatic and raise the
right amount of capital and build in

a capital efficient way, you can have
incredible successes selling your company

for 10 million, 20 million, 50 million.

Uh, there's many different
paths you can take.

Um, so I think giving
ourselves the room to run.

In whatever direction we wanted.

I think that's what we,
uh, wanted to, to go for.

Prateek Panda: Got it.

Thanks for sharing that, Joseph.

Um, you obviously like AI is the buzzword.

As a founder, are there any tools
that sort of you really like and you

can't sort of live out, live without?

Joseph Lee: Uh, well, I love Fathom.

Fathom is an incredible
meeting recording tool.

Um, that's amazing.

I think there's, uh, incredible
tools like 11 Labs, which is

a, a huge part of what we do.

I think they're, uh, like AI voice
is incredible and some of the

work they're doing is incredible.

Big fan of perplexity I use.

Uh, essentially like every day.

Um, I love their ui, I love their design.

Um, I think it's great.

Obviously OpenAI, uh, Claude, uh, cursor
is embedded into all of our engineer's

workflow, so we mandate the use of,
uh, AI throughout like our workflow.

And I think that's kind of
a standard that we've seen.

Across the board, whether it's
Shopify or, uh, other types

of larger companies as well.

So there's, there's lots and
there's like new ones coming

up every, every single day.

Right.

And obviously you have to put
super demo in the mix there.

Prateek Panda: Yes, absolutely.

Um, what's next for you and super?

Joseph Lee: Um, I think it's, uh,
scaling to like our next milestone.

So how do we get to 10 million, uh, in
a RR And how do we go from where we're

at of, you know, tens of thousands
of, uh, users, so founders, product

marketers, CSMs, that we're empowering to.

Now how do we take that next step up
to empowering millions of knowledge

workers, uh, around the world?

So, um.

We have an exceptional product.

We have an exceptional team.

I, I really believe in it.

Um, there's no reason
why we can't get there.

Uh, all of the recipe
ingredients are there.

Uh, it's up to us to
execute and get there.

Now,

Prateek Panda: what has
been your philosophy around

building your early team?

Like what do you look for in people?

Joseph Lee: Um, character is number one.

Um, I think a lot of skill, obviously
you need to have a, like a bar, uh,

minimum floor for skill sets and technical
competency, but I think a character

and, and the type of person that they
are, um, that is very hard to teach.

So someone that is malleable,
extremely open to feedback without

taking things personally, um, uh, is.

Open to giving feedback in a transparent
and candid and frequent way as well.

And just someone that is, uh,
has a thirst for learning.

Uh, you know, like a lot
is shifting, uh, nowadays.

So, um, to, I think to make your,
make yourself, uh, like future proof

within any organization, I think you
need to be in a constant, uh, state

of learning and adoption of like
new technologies, new methodologies.

So those are the types of people
that we try to bring on board.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

Thank you so much, Joseph.

Um, I think that's all the time
we have for today, and it was

amazing for you to join this.

I wanna give a shout out to
Hiba who's on your team now.

She used to work with me before
and that's how we got introduced.

Uh, so, you know, shout out to her for
sort of, in some way making this happen.

Joseph Lee: Beautiful.

Okay.

Thanks for having me.

Thank.

Prateek Panda: Thank you so much, Josef.

And that wraps up today's episode.

Before we sign off, I would like
to thank you for your support

and thanks for tuning in.

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