Off to the Valley

Alessio Pieroni: So My last day in
office was in end of March, 2020,

which was peak of the pandemic.

And I was like, wow, I left a very
cool company with an amazing position

to start entrepreneurship and the
world is ending tomorrow, basically.

I was like, what the hell did I do?

Prateek Panda: All right.

Hello, everyone.

And welcome back to another episode
of Off To The Valley, a podcast

that brings to light the incredible
stories of those who left the

familiarity of home for New Horizons.

I'm your host, Prateek Panda, always
curious and eager to share these

journeys of courage and determination.

Today, we are delighted to have
Alessio Pieroni join our podcast.

Alessio is the founder of Scale for
Impact, a marketing agency dedicated

to growing online education businesses.

With a decade of experience in
the e-learning space, his journey

is one of resilience, passion,
and remarkable achievements.

During his tenure at Mindvalley as
the Chief Marketing Officer, Alessio

helped scale the company from $25
Million to about $75 Million in revenue.

And in 2020, he founded Scale for Impact,
which in just two years has collaborated

with renowned authors like Tony
Robbins, Jordan Peterson, and many more.

His agency excels in building
funnels, creating content, scaling

advertising spends, and launching
New York Times bestsellers.

As an Italian global citizen,
Alessio has been traveling the

world for the past seven years.

His mission is to revolutionize
online education by consulting

with top authors globally.

From a corporate job at Apple to founding
a successful agency, his journey is

truly inspiring and that's what we will
get to learn more about in this episode.

Alessio, it's a pleasure
to have you on the show.

Alessio Pieroni: Thank
you so much for wow.

What a great intro.

Thank you.

Prateek Panda: So talking about great
intros, you've had a great journey.

Tell us a little bit more about
your background, where did you

grow up, and why did you decide
to move out of your homeland?

Alessio Pieroni: Well, I grew
up in a small town in Italy.

One town that maybe if you come
from abroad, it will look like one

of those Game of Thrones town, like
very medieval, very cute, very nice.

And frankly, I've been a mama's boy, like
most of Italians for my first 20 years.

And what happened is that when I was 20,
I figured out, wow, I don't speak English.

And that's embarrassing.

I need to figure that out.

And luckily enough, I
was in a, I was in uni.

I was in an organization
that was international.

And they were organizing different
travels around the world, where you

could volunteer in different locations.

And back then I say, hey, you know what?

In India they speak English.

Let's go to India.

And so my first trip alone, my
first trip without my family

or friends, I went to India.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

Alessio Pieroni: In a remote
region in Gujarat in Baroda,

stay there for six weeks.

I completely changed my life.

It opened up my eyes on, wow,
so many different things.

So many different people around
the world, started to get my first

international friends and I realized,
wow, now I feel home in this environment.

And, that kind of gave me
a good slap on the face.

It made me realize there is so much more
than what I've been living until now.

And that's, it was definitely one
of the biggest inspiration and

motivation, that kickstarts my journey.

After that, I went back to
India for a year in Bangalore.

From there, what you mentioned, I
went to Apple, I went to Mindvalley,

lived in London, Malaysia.

And now living in Spain
for the past three years.

So it's been quite a ride.

I would say that it all started when
I just didn't know English and I

needed to figure out how to learn it.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

And, I know it's interesting that,
you mentioned, you didn't know

English and, that's probably not
the first thing that comes to mind

for people like, let's go to India.

What was the thought process there, in
saying that, okay, let's go explore India.

Alessio Pieroni: I was frankly very naive.

Most of all, my friends will go to
London to be dishwashers because

that's what Italians do, and I was
like, come on, that's so boring.

I don't want to be a dishwasher.

Let me do something else.

And it just felt, Hey, you know what?

In India, people speak English
because they were a colonist.

So let's do it.

I didn't know about accents.

I didn't know these other things.

I was just like, yeah, let's just do it.

And it's funny that I have a very
strong Italian accent, but for the

first year in which I was actually
talking in English, I was talking with

a mix of Italian and Indian accents.

It was fantastic.

So yeah, it was very naive.

And frankly, having a bit of this naivety,
and going out for an adventure, it's one

of those most beautiful things, right?

That allow you to discover your courage,
to discover so many more things that you

wouldn't have discovered if I would have
all this pre concept in my head about

where should I go to learn English or
which country should I visit next, right?

So that was beautiful, yeah.

Prateek Panda: Do you try to,
preserve that, feeling inside you?

Because the thing is, when we are
younger, the naivety comes more naturally

and you're more willing to explore.

As you grow older, as you've had more
experience, it is hard to, keep that child

alive in you if, for the lack of a better
example, now that you've experienced that

the naivety actually helped you get so
many new experiences, do you consciously

try something to preserve that?

Alessio Pieroni: Wow, it's interesting
because I was having this discussion

this week with my therapist And, it
challenged me a lot on that because

it was telling me exactly what you say
is that in a lot of things you've done

in your life, you've done good because
you let your own child take control.

When is the last time you did that?

When is the last time that you
say, Hey, you know what, my

inner child wants to do this.

Let's do it.

And that's something that, I need
to remember a bit more often.

It's obvious that, when you pay
salaries of other team members and

staff, it's a bit more difficult
to say, Hey, you know what?

Let's just call her Zimbabwe.

It's obviously a bit more
difficult to do that and you

have a bit more responsibilities.

But on the other end is, it's something
that maybe in different proportion and

in different ways, I'm challenging a
bit more myself lately to do it again.

Yeah.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

Talking about teammates, I wanted to know
what is it like working with Alessio?

What kind of, boss,
manager, leader you are?

Alessio Pieroni: I would say this,
that, I think I try to be human.

That's where everything starts to me.

I believe that a lot of people are a
lot more into, oh, a boss should be

like this, a leader should be like that.

I try to be a lot more human.

I'm reading Radical Candor and one of
the things that I really find myself

in the concept of the book is about
the concept of caring personally.

I really believe that if you don't care
personally for the person that you're

working with, it's very difficult
to be a great leader, no matter how

skilled you are in leadership tactics or
management or, any tools that you have.

I think it all starts from there and
that's what I try to do for, for my team.

The other thing is, I think the team
needs to know that I got their back,

and that's something that they always
try to bring it up and at the same

time, this is something that we've been
discussing a lot with my team lately

and we decided to have this sentence in
defining who we are, we are not a family.

We are a sports team, in the sense that
maybe I'm a bit more like the coach.

I like to look at myself as the
head of the hustle of the situation.

We're a team that need to perform
because obviously I can have your

back and can personally, but.

If you're not performing and our clients
are not happy with what we deliver,

obviously the relationship wouldn't work.

So it's important to know that you're
not a family because I would never

fire my brother or my mom, right?

But, we are in a situation where we need
to perform and we need to give our best.

And I think that, as Ted Lasso,
I really love that, series.

He tried to get the best out of each
person, but then in the other end you

need to win championship you need to
do well also from a performance point

of view and that's what I believe
is something to remember as well.

Yeah.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

Tell me a little bit more about
your move to Mindvalley, your time

there and particularly in Malaysia.

Alessio Pieroni: Yeah, I Moved
there when I was 26 and I think

I already changed two three jobs
and I really couldn't find my way.

When I was in India, I was a journalist
when I was in UK in Apple, I was a

recruiter and I hated my job and it's so
difficult, especially, in our generation

to look at other people enjoying their
life, having great career, getting

promotions and you're there stuck.

I want to kill yourself because you need
to do the most boring job ever, and at

the moment I say, look, if I need to live
like this, people think I'm successful

because I work for Apple, but on the
other hand, I'm dying inside and I'm 26.

I'm like, I prefer to go on the
other side of the world in a

company that looks incredible and
where I'm sure I'll find myself.

And that's exactly what I did.

I literally cut my salary by
almost 80 percent to go there.

My mom was like, okay, you're nuts.

What are you doing?

There is no sense of going for an unknown
company in the middle of Malaysia and

I got hired, as a project manager.

And I didn't really know
what I was going to do.

It's just like, okay, cool.

Let me manage a project.

And then I realized quickly
that, that project management

was basically marketing.

And then I was like, Oh, you know what?

I like this.

Let me do more of that.

And that has been game changing for me
because what was great about my experience

there is I always found an environment
that allow me to innovate and grow.

I really felt in love with marketing and
so every day before going to office for

two hours I will study marketing and then
I will go to the office and I'll say hey,

I learned about this thing, Can we do it?

And they'll be like why not try and then
I will try and it will work very well.

It was a playground basically and for me
it was amazing because I could test out

things, theories that I just learned and
ideas and stuff on millions of people

And I was just like, wow, that's amazing.

I can change people in life by doing
these little changes and stuff.

And, frankly, using it as a playground
and using it as a fun environment, it

allowed me to understand what was good,
what was bad, which marketing tactic

worked, which didn't, figuring out
the why, and then playing around with

a lot of other team members because
the team that is incredible to really

take everything to the next level.

That's really what was
a game changer for me.

And obviously this started bringing
results and then promotion after promotion

allow me to do a very quick career inside
the organization and, as you say, to

become chief marketing officer at 29,
literally two years and a half after being

completely lost what I needed to do in my
life to become chief marketing officer.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

Did you call your mom after that?

Alessio Pieroni: My mom really
doesn't fully understand

what I do, which is okay now.

.
Yeah,

Prateek Panda: Tell me a little bit
more about, you had an incredibly

quick, growth at Mindvalley and , you
did mention that part of that was,

You are learning a lot of new things.

You're bringing new ideas,
running new experiments.

And I'm sure that's what the
company started seeing as well.

And you started bringing more results.

Can you share a few of your
learnings from that time that

maybe was very interesting for you?

I know you're like to talk a
lot about funnels, and how do

you optimize them and so on.

But anything that you still, remember
from those days, that stood out for you?

Or like you tried an experiment
and you were like, Oh wow, I didn't

really know this would work so well.

Yeah.

Alessio Pieroni: I would say I
have done different things in

Mindvalley that were interesting.

I think in 2017 we were one of the
first company to adopt chatbots

on Facebook when literally they
came out a few weeks before.

And just to understand how
crazy it was, that thing.

It was like I googled this chatbot thing
'cause I've heard it in a few places.

I tried to figure out how
can you create a chatbot?

And I figured out, oh,
I don't need to code.

I can do it myself.

Like, fantastic, let me do it.

And then I created it and I connected
the first chatbot to a sub brand

that Mindvalley used to have that was
kind of forgotten by everyone else.

And I went to the All hands meeting.

It's a meeting with 300 people that they
do and I say, can I speak five minutes?

I want to show them a
little project I did.

They gave me five minutes and then
I say, guys, this is the future.

I created a chatbot.

It's already connected to this page.

Go and play around with that.

And everyone was like,
this guy's a genius.

What did you do?

Oh, my goodness.

But that was the thing.

It was just like a game, right?

It was, yeah, why not?

Let me try, let's do this.

And then can you do this
for .? Can you do this for that?

And then it was one of the first
thing where people started to see, oh,

this guy is smart, he can do things.

He's tech savvy, he can put things
together and then after that, this allow

me to move a bit more to a role that was
a bit more as a growth hacker, because I

created a bit more of a brand of being a
disrupter and going to new technologies.

So these allow me to do tons of tests.

And basically, my role was about doing
tests with all different department

and pushing them to innovate.

And right in that moment, one of
the major things that happened was

that Mindvalley developed a new
technology that was named Quest.

So the entire idea is that, the use of
courses, which was self paced, learnings

basically and quest, which is basically,
similar type of course, but the difference

is that it will start on a specific date
and you will go through the learnings with

a community and on a separate technology.

And what was interesting is that the quest
were selling so well, and the courses

were not selling as well as the quest.

But what was even more interesting
is that all our advertising strategy

was focused around courses and that
we weren't advertising for the quest.

The reason why was because whenever you
advertise, you want to have something

continuously over time so that you can
scale up and improve while quest being

starting, in once every six months
or once a year, you couldn't really

scale them up as much as we want.

And the classic thing that was
happening there was that everyone

was like, let's transform Quest
into courses and advertise them.

And I remember that Vishen was so
against this idea, and everyone

was like, Vishen is stupid.

He doesn't understand this, he's killing
the company, something like that.

And I was like very confused
because it was clear that these new

Quests were great products, so why
didn't he want to advertise them?

And then I did something that,
funny enough, No one did.

And I simply went to Vishen and say,
Vishen, I've heard you saying this, why

don't you want to advertise this quest?

And he's like, look, it's pretty simple.

I really believe that, the entire
customer experience changes.

When people have a community and
when people start on the same

day, they'll achieve much better
results than they do in a course.

And if you just do the same experience
as a course, the customer experience

will go so much down that this
entire technology wouldn't be as

powerful as it is at the moment.

And that changed because it was like, so
it's not that you don't want to advertise.

It's just that you don't want
to lose the customer experience.

So if I found an idea that would
allow us to advertise these,

Would you be open to test it out?

And it's like, yeah, sure.

And then I started working with my team
and we come up with an idea of, how can

we recreate an entire calendar for quest
and making them run every single month.

And it was a crazy test in the beginning,
but funny enough, we figured out

that even if we were taking a normal
course and transforming it into a

quest, it will sell 30 percent more.

Prateek Panda: Hmm.

Alessio Pieroni: So that basically
means if you take a course.

And you give it a community and you give
it a start date so that people have a

sort of urgency to start that kind of
course, you can grow your sales by 30%.

That was insane.

I literally did this test.

I went to Vishen and to the entire
exec team and everyone was like, good.

And from that, we started a vision that
Mindvalley shouldn't sell anymore courses.

It should sell just quest because it
should completely change the thing.

And then we literally revolutionized the
entire company then because we were able

to take the entire courses to the next
level to improve a lot of the sales to

have a lot more quest on advertising.

And I think that's what I always
say is that when I started in my

valley, we were spending $100,000 a
month, more or less on advertising.

When I left, we were spending
over 3 million a month, profit.

And, that was a scale that obviously
was behind the peak growth.

That you were talking about,
it all started with the simple

idea with the simple test.

But more than that, it started with really
understanding your stakeholders because

sometimes there are blockers and you're
like, Oh, this person doesn't want it.

Why?

What do they don't they want exactly?

Because there is no one here
that doesn't want to grow.

There's no one here that doesn't
want to take their company

to the next level, right?

Everyone wants it.

So, it's all about understanding if they
have a feeling that certain things might

kill their current status quo and that
was what exactly was happening there.

That was such a beautiful experience,
I've learned so much, I have so many

of these other stories that, that
I've learned over the years, yeah.

Prateek Panda: That is amazing, Alessio.

Thanks a lot for sharing that.

And you brought about the aspect of
community, which I think is absolutely

essential both in personal lives
as well as professional and more

businesses are also now starting to
realize that building communities

around their products helps make it
more sticky, helps increase adoption.

You've experienced that with your growth
in sales as well, but talking about

community on the personal side as well.

I've moved around a lot to different
countries, different parts of the world.

And one of the first challenges
always is starting to build

a new community around you.

You move to India, you
move to Malaysia, both.

Like Asian countries are very heavy
on community and typically have a

close knit, group of people that
they spend a lot of time with.

As somebody new into that ecosystem, how
did you go about, building a community

of people you would want to spend more
time with and learn from and so on?

Alessio Pieroni: It's very interesting,
because I actually find that this was much

easier in my early 20s than it is now.

Creating a friendship requires so much
energy, it's so much give and take, right?

And then someone just moves out,
or you move out somewhere else.

And all this thing that you invest
in a friendship, it's just not that

it goes away, but obviously the
friendship slowly starts fading

if you don't keep in contact.

As of 50 friendship you'll make, you'll
probably be able to keep in contact

very well with five of them, right?

So, it's definitely a big topic.

What I would say is that for me, it
was very important to figure out how

can I make friendship with people that
have my same values, my same interests,

and can go from that point of view.

And I was discussing with a friend of
mine that I don't feel anymore Italian.

If I could choose, I will probably drop
my passport to join the expat nation.

It's interesting that I feel a lot
more connected with an Indian that

work in five different countries and
now is living in Barcelona rather than

with an Italian that never left Italy,

Prateek Panda: Hmm.

Alessio Pieroni: even though
I grew up there for 23 years.

And that's interesting because sure.

Those are my roots, but my life, my
values, what I believe in, my interests

are a lot more in common with an
Indian that traveled the world than

with an Italian that never moved.

That's kind of also what I try to
do in the different trips, in the

different countries where I go.

How can I find people that
have similar interests?

And obviously, Mindvalley was a
fantastic community already by itself.

So it was very easy to create friendship.

For context, for people that
don't know Mindvalley, there are

about 300 people that work for the
company from 60 different countries.

So it was sort of a united
nation, basically, all together

and everyone between 25 and 35.

So very young team, very
easy to make friendship.

I found my wife in Mindvalley's team.

So, it's a very cool environment and
it's easy to create friendship there.

But when I went to Barcelona, I started
having a very different challenge because

most of all, my clients are in the United
States, my team is completely remote.

And so I literally didn't have any
way to meet people in Barcelona.

And for the first couple of years
I had this problem, and last

year I simply say, you know what?

Stop with this crap.

I need to find my people.

And that's why I joined EO,
Entrepreneurial Organization.

Which is a fantastic
community for entrepreneurs.

I've learned so much from
so many people there.

But on top of that, I created so
many deep relationship with people.

That again, like me, they come
from other countries, they travel

the world, some of them are local.

But even then they have
an international mindset.

And it's very much easier to
create this kind of friendship,

create this kind of community, and
feel home no matter where I go.

So that has been a very
beautiful investment for sure.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing and
thanks a lot for sharing about EO

as well, entrepreneur organization.

I'm sure a lot of our listeners
are founders who move around a lot,

definitely they would find this helpful.

I will also go check it out because I
haven't heard a lot about it and looks

like it's a pretty large community.

Alessio Pieroni: About 20,000
people all over the world.

All entrepreneurs need to make
more than a million, I think.

So it's also qualified on a certain
level and that really allow you

to, yeah, find a great community.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

Tell us a little bit about Scale
for Impact, your current company.

Tell us a little bit about it, but I
also want to know that you started this

almost at the peak of the pandemic.

What was going on in your mind
as you were thinking of doing,

business, at that stage in life.

Alessio Pieroni: Look,
it's such a crazy story.

It's a story of resilience
as well, because I resigned

Mindvalley in January, 2020.

Prateek Panda: Hmm.

Alessio Pieroni: When the world was
normal and simply was, I was done with

my journey there and I felt I wanted
to test out some entrepreneurship.

And then I had that three
month notice period.

So My last day in office was
in end of March, 2020, which

was peak of the pandemic.

And I was like, wow, I left a very
cool company with an amazing position

to start entrepreneurship and the
world is ending tomorrow, basically.

I was like, what the hell did I do?

And and it was interesting
because my thought at that

time was actually very clear.

It's like, I will do everything
besides starting an agency.

I will never start an agency.

I don't like agencies.

And this was because again, I
never came from an agency setting.

I came a lot more from working for
the client and I work with a lot

of agencies that I didn't like.

So I was like, I don't
want to be one of them.

And so what happened there was
that I said, I will start a

startup and I will work on that.

And, in between just to make some
money, I'll consult for anyone that needs

some consultancy in online education.

And then what happened was that obviously
with the pandemic, so many companies, even

they were offline, needed to go online.

And a lot of people, as soon
as started hearing that, I left

Mindvalley, they brought me,
they're like, Hey, can you help us?

So I started doing a lot of
projects for people during the

pandemic because they need it.

And online education was booming
at the moment and funny enough, my

consulting became bigger and bigger.

My startup project became smaller and
smaller, till a moment in which I needed

to start hiring people to make sure that
they could stay and that they could grow

and I could sustain their consulting.

And then I figured out that I was always
recommending the same freelancers for

copywriting, for design, for video,
for stuff till when I say, you

know what, this just doesn't work.

Let's bring it all together.

And, let's take this as I always
recommend and make them part

of my team and I'm an agency.

There is nothing wrong with that.

So it really started very organically
and I was lucky enough that obviously

had a very strong expertise in what I'm
doing that allow me to start like that.

And basically from then,
it developed a lot.

It developed on the things that we
can do, that where we want to go, the

people we work with, and right now
our vision is to be the marketing team

of the best online educators in the
world, like especially educators that

don't want to hire their own team.

They want to have experts
that can do things for them.

And have been doing for years and years.

That's what me and my team do.

And it has been a fantastic journey.

I've learned so much because again,
I was very new to the agency world.

And it has been such a great, learning.

I always felt that I was an entrepreneur
inside and in normal things, I think

I was, but I also figured out that
entrepreneurship is so much more difficult

than what I thought from outside.

I understood a lot more.

My bosses, my CEO, entrepreneurs that
I used to work before and on how much

stress they needed to go through, and
especially has been super important to

understand how, as an entrepreneur, you
need to have your own support system.

You need to take care
of your mental health.

You need to take care of so
many things because it is tough.

It's lonely as an entrepreneur.

And if you don't have that support
system, you can implode very easily.

Prateek Panda: What do you
do to alleviate that stress?

And I know being a founder before
and even now as an executive, I

keep telling people that as an
entrepreneur, That you experience a

lot of highs and the highs are very
high, but the lows are terribly low.

So, if you can't get yourself back up,
you'll never experience the highs either.

You will see a lot more lows than you
see the highs or experience the highs.

So what are you doing to help you
reduce your stress and, keep that sort

of environment of support around you?

Alessio Pieroni: You really
touched the right point here.

At least to me, the most difficult
part was dealing with what I call the

roller coaster of entrepreneurship,
because really one day you feel

the king and the day after you
feel the worst person in the world.

For me, I think I was one year and a half
in, and I over hired a bit in my team.

And then there was a down
moment in our agency and they

need to fire two, three people.

That was, one of the toughest
moments that I've ever experienced.

It's literally, I don't
know if I was burned out.

I don't know if I was in, some specific
thing, but definitely the level of

anxiety, the level of stress that
I had for that decision was so big.

Yeah.

And obviously we were able to do it in
a way in which the people were safe.

We found them another job, but
we was able to make it in a nice

way, but it really felt so bad.

And I understood that I needed to
figure out how to deal with the

rollercoaster of entrepreneurship.

I made the biggest investment in
my life to hire a coach that will

help me navigate through that.

And I think that a big part of that
has been detaching my own self worth.

From the revenues I was making my company

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

Alessio Pieroni: A lot
more towards this month.

We have done very well and like,
Oh, the team has done very well

this month rather than I'm the best.

Or things are not going well.

It's like, Hmm, need to
improve the team in doing that.

So specifically, I work with a coach back
then I'm working with a therapist right

now and to me, keeping things in check.

Even when things are going amazing, like
this is an amazing period, for example,

keeping it in check and always having
someone that questions me and allow me

to think at that hour every week to make
sure that I can do that is invaluable.

Absolutely.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

In fact, you brought out a very good
point that I think, over the last

couple of years, having gone to therapy
myself, I realized that it is even more

important to work with a coach or a
therapist during your best times, than

it kind of seems obvious to get help
when you are at your worst, but, it is

amazingly game changing when you are
able to work with someone when you are

seeing the best days to realize what
is really bringing you the best days.

And a lot of that sort of carries
forward during the tougher times.

Alessio, you've spent time in Asia.

You're back to Barcelona
now, back to Europe.

There is a significant difference in
Work culture in both of these places

and a lot of people like the European
style or the European dream is really

one part of it that I envy once in
a while is, it's more laid back.

So, work is important, but spending time
with family, taking time for yourself

is probably even more important.

Versus in Asia, a lot of us, like
having grown up over there, we

give a lot of importance to work.

We work insane hours, and that
often comes with a compromise and

a variety of different things.

As you spend time in both of these
places, are there some, pieces

of cultural learnings that you're
taking from different places?

Alessio Pieroni: Yeah.

It's very interesting.

Funny enough, I never worked in a
European environment, because I was

saying I work in UK, that's not really
European And then I work in Asia and now

I'm having my own company, but all my
previous experience has been non-european.

I never worked in Italy, right?

So I think I'm a lot more international
in my approach Especially because working

with U.S clients, there is always also a
time zone aspect that it's important being

in Europe But what's interesting to me,
is what I adore about Asia is that you

guys have really that hunger, and I really
think that that's been lost in Europe.

That kind of hunger is
really missing a bit.

And that's probably one of the
number one things I'm actually

looking for when I hire people.

I want people that are
like, big, smart, hunger.

That can go from that point of view,
obviously at the same time, we talk a lot

about mental health and I believe that
having a good amount of hours and taking

care and taking holidays and creating
that kind of environment, it is important

because, I simply cannot perform.

I tried also sometimes, for example,
I have very clear things that I

don't take calls after 8 PM my time.

Because it is kind of impossible
for me to take calls after

the time and be productive.

I'm just not able and
that's why I don't do it.

It's my choice.

Sometimes I lose clients for that, right?

I have very big clients that I
would love to work with, but as

soon as they hear that, they're
like, ah, sorry, we don't do that.

Okay.

The value of my own mental health is
more important than anything else for me.

And that's something that I try
to do and, you know, Barcelona in

Europe is also probably the capital
of the lifestyle entrepreneurship,

because it's similar to San Francisco
in U.S to LA, San Diego, probably.

It's very California style.

It's a city on the beach, and it's
laid back, but at the same time, There

is still entrepreneurship compared to
other places in Spain as an example.

So it is a very interesting
environment to come and create that.

And because of the company I worked
for before and because of my drive,

because of my thing, it's important
to be in an environment where I'm

reminded that lifestyle is important.

So I work like 8-10 hours a day
to make sure that I do my things,

but also make sure also that
I have some guardrails because

Prateek Panda: that's amazing.

Alessio Pieroni: yeah it's definitely
fundamental for me to perform frankly.

It's not that I do that because
I want to chill I really need

to chill to perform Yeah,

Prateek Panda: That sounds good.

Alessio, as we come to the end of
this conversation, I want to ask you,

you've shared a lot of nuggets of
information, and is there like one sort

of philosophy in life that you try to
follow, that might apply to personal

life, to professional life, but could
be something to leave this audience

with, that would be great to hear.

Alessio Pieroni: Well, the philosophy
I always say is always be growing.

There was this famous movie where they
were talking about always be selling

and to me it's always be growing.

In life, there is a lot of moments
where things don't go your way.

You can use blame in those moments
or you can use it as, okay, great.

What can I learn from this?

Before Mindvalley, I didn't
have a lot of great leaders.

In the companies I was working for and
the question I was asking myself was,

great, what did I learn that I will
not apply when I will be a leader?

Prateek Panda: Yeah.

Alessio Pieroni: Right?

And making treasure also of the
bad experience is so important

for you to make sure that you can
take things to the next level.

And I never lose.

I always learn.

And that's what I try to remind myself.

I should always be
growing, you never lose.

Prateek Panda: Yeah, I
think that's great advice.

And on those lines, I remember
a few times, friends of mine

would bring up like how they have
a terrible manager and so on.

And I used to tell them that, while
that is hard, it also teaches you

what kind of manager to never be
when you get into that role, right.

And, till we sort of experienced some
of that, we don't know that, okay, this

is something I should never become.

And if I become that, I have to
keep myself in check because my

team is going to start feeling
the same thing I'm feeling today.

All right, Alessio, it
was great talking to you.

Thank you so much for taking out time.

I think there's so much
valuable information here.

Thank you so much for
sharing your journey.

Alessio Pieroni: Thank you, Prateek,
it's been fantastic being here.

Prateek Panda: And that
wraps up today's episode.

Before we sign off, I would like
to thank you for your support

and thanks for tuning in.

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Then don't forget to subscribe to this
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Be kind, be happy, challenge the norm.

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