Off to the Valley

Jane Fisher: Right now
we're a team of four.

All of them are part-time.

Everybody's working for equity.

All our costs for,

for over a year of operation and with
two MVPs being built, one mobile and one

the one web app, it's been like $10,000
that we spent including legal costs.

It's all about connecting all the dots
and make sure you've exhausted every

resource before you say, we can't do this.

Prateek Panda: Hello and welcome back
to Off To the Valley, where we go

beyond the headlines to explore bold
ideas, human stories, and turning points

behind the startups shaping our world.

I'm your host Prateek Panda, and
today I'm thrilled to be joined

by Jane Fisher, former journalist,
communication strategist, and now Founder

of immi, an AI powered platform helping
immigrants navigate life in a new country.

After moving abroad herself, Jane saw
firsthand how overwhelming the whole

process can be and decided to build the
kind of support she wished existed before.

From simplifying housing and
healthcare to creating real community

connections, immi is turning
experiences into real world impact.

Jane, it's amazing to
have you on the show.

I'm for one, very excited to have this
conversation because as an immigrant

myself, I've moved and lived in
three different countries, apart from

my home country, and I can totally
understand how challenging it is.

So let's get to know more about you.

Jane Fisher: The pleasure is all mine.

Prateek Panda: Okay.

Let's start with a little bit
about your background, right?

Tell us what your childhood looked like.

Anything that helps us
understand Jane better.

Jane Fisher: Well, I always say I have a
very mixed up and messed up cultural and

national identity because, if you know the
term third culture kid, which is the term

that relates to, people that were brought
up or partly brought up in the country,

different from their parents' origin and
therefore their mentality's different.

Basically that's, that's me,
that's the definition of me.

I was born and raised in Japan and
obviously I don't look Japanese and that's

because my parents, come from the USSR.

They were born in what now is
Russia and, and their parents

come from all over Eastern Europe.

And then I was born and raised
in Japan in this quite a

social greenhouse environment.

Because in Japan, I dunno if you
know much about it, but it's not

really an immigrant friendly culture.

It's friendly to foreign influence in
a way, but it never fully absorbs it.

And, and so you can never really
become a part of that society.

So clearly I didn't integrate.

And then for studies I left abroad,
so I studied in the UK and I

also moved around, into different
countries quite a few times.

So when people ask me where I'm from,
I always say I'm not quite sure really.

I identify myself as a Londoner
these days 'cause at least that's

why I don't feel like an alien.

'cause there are a lot of people
with a journey similar to mine.

Prateek Panda: It's an interesting
thing that you said at the end, right?

I don't feel like an alien.

And that's truly one of the
biggest challenges as immigrants.

We get into an environment where
we are finding to feel or finding

this comfort of home, so that the
search for home continues as you

move from one place to another.

What encouraged you to start immi and what
are you doing for other immigrant, who are

trying to sort of move to other countries?

Jane Fisher: Well, I think I've always
been quite a philanthropic person, as in

it always brings me joy to help others.

I just.

For many years, I guess I didn't think
of it as a, as an option for my career.

And then during the pandemic, I was,
I was no longer working in journalism.

I transitioned to first production,
then digital content, and I was

working in a tech company by then.

The job head was called the
marketing, but it all lacked purpose.

And then during the pandemic,
I started meditating.

I started just, I guess reflecting
more on like, where do I actually

want to end up, what I want to
look back on in 10 years time?

And somehow it just occurred to me that
well actually, serving others through,

pursuing my own ambitions is what,

what seems most exciting to me?

This is what actually brings
that spark inside me to life.

So I thought at the time that I needed
to search for opportunities in global

humanitarian organizations such as the UN
and I nearly succeeded securing a job in,

not in UN but one of the UN partners, one
of the global humanitarian organizations.

But at the same time, I was choosing
between that offer and an offer from

a no name small health tech startup,
which was aiming at a certain,

at helping patients with cancer worldwide.

And, even though it was counterintuitive
to client that offer from a global name,

from a community organization, I, for
some reason, I just felt like I needed

to go in the direction of startups.

And so that's how I ended
up in social impact and

inbook technology.

And then what, as it usually happens,
well, no, usually, but statistically

quite often happens with startups.

An idea may be brilliant and the
mission, you can love it, you can

live it, but only 2% make it right.

So our startup was not part
of the positive statistics.

And, and I was not a co-founder,
I was a part of the team.

So that was a very
heartbreaking experience.

'cause in the startup, especially
in the early stage, you really feel

like this is a part of you, but you
don't have enough force enough say,

in the strategic business decisions.

And so you, were just forced
to watch it burn, you know?

So that brought me to the point
when I realized, that I needed

to build something on my own.

But I knew way too much about
founding market fit by that time.

So I knew that health tech is
not quite the space for me to

innovate in as much as I love it.

So I thought, okay, where do I have
enough experience and skills and

understanding how to help people while
also making it a business opportunity?

And then I recalled some of my previous
experiences, moving countries and one of

the immigrant integration support systems
that I went through in one of those

countries that I lived in which is great,
but it's highly manual and not digital.

And I thought, okay, why don't
I try to digitize it, especially

with AI and scale it to the
countries where it's not available.

And that's how the idea of immi was
born originally fully B2C focus 'cause

I thought it's an individual problem.

And then as I studied more of the
micro and macroeconomic data on what

impacts immigrant integration or lack
of a has on economies on businesses

and societies and communities.

And then realize how much of
a B2G and B2B problem it is.

It kind of shifts our entire concept.

So we still have the B2C, not focus, but
option as well, but to actually solve

the problems we're striving to solve.

We're now trying to make a case out of
an institutional innovation, which is not

there, and we have very little competition
there because few people are so as crazy

as to go to government, especially now
with an immigrant oriented solution.

But I dunno, I guess it
just like challenges.

So here I am.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

Thank you so much for sharing that, Jane.

Tell me a little bit about your MVP
process and how you went about deciding

what you have to exactly build, because
you did talk a little bit about, hey,

you started B2C and over time you
learned that it's potentially a better

fit with B2B or B2G even, I'm guessing
G meaning government in this case.

Yeah.

So what was your initial hypothesis
looking like and what are the steps you

followed to sort of validate that idea?

Jane Fisher: So my whole plan for any
or what it should look like, relies on

like real world system where you have
a person, a coordinator who tells you

where to go, what to do, which documents
to bring, gives you reliable information

on every step of your journey, connects
you to verified service providers,

for anything like mobile network or
banking or insurance, whatever, and

then produces it to local communities.

So what I envision is an AI powered,
coordinated, trained on content

that can answer your question.

Also, the content library, because
you don't always know which question

to ask, especially when you come
into a completely different reality.

And a marketplace of those
verified providers, especially with

filters like language they speak
or you know who they founded by.

Because sometimes you want, say
a lawyer who understands the

challenges of your specific passport
or you say you want childcare.

Like a nanny that speaks your language
because a child is just too young to

understand, any other language and so on.

So that was the hypothesis.

And the MVP that we built, I mean like, we
call it MVP, but it is a working product.

It's just a fraction of vision.

It does have those features obviously.

It's a very simple platform right now.

It doesn't have all the personalization
mechanisms that we're hoping to

develop once the money is in,
because the actual leverage of AI.

I mean the AI chatbot, it's just something
that makes the user experience better.

It doesn't have to be there.

It's not the core part of the proposition.

Our platform can live without it,
but the actual benefit of such

platform, that would be something
different from what exists.

So there is, if we can ensure the
fully personalized journey for each

person, so that's where we need our
own prepared proprietary algorithms.

And that's not something we have in
place right now, but that's our roadmap.

Prateek Panda: Great.

And you know, on your LinkedIn you've
shared recently about your experience

also doing some consulting gigs
to help extend the runway for me.

And so do you find balance between
the two and what are some tips that

you can share with other founders
who are very early in their startups

and might be not fully ready to, I'm
not saying that they're not ready to

commit, but it can be a lot financially.

So do you have any tips?

Jane Fisher: For sure.

I'd say you should never underestimate
how many ways there are out there to

make things work and how many people want
to help you without any money involved.

I think that was a pleasant surprise.

And like right now we're a team of four.

All of them are part-time.

I mean for me, obviously immi is
my main professional identity.

So that takes up most of my time.

Well, except for now, 'cause I
was in this very intense project

for the last couple of weeks.

But usually immi is what I do day to day.

My co-founder has a day job.

Our two other co-founder team
members, developer and the product

designer, they also have other project
projects, but they still help us

and like none of us gets paid money.

Everybody's working for equity.

And if you, you know, if you told me a
couple of years ago that people would be

working for me for free, I'd be like, A,
I wouldn't want them to do that, and B,

like, who would want to do that at all?

But again, here I am and you know,
when you, don't have a choice, but

you do have people who are genuinely
interested and they're happy to help you

and that, you know, moves the needle.

A that works suddenly and that, that
may not necessarily be an ideal thing.

Like obviously we don't have a super
versatile dev team that would make

the app world dreams, but it's, we,
we're still able to make the working

product and it works and we're testing
it with a B2B client right now and

we've got some B2G interest coming
now, so fingers crossed will have

a B2G pilots in a couple of months.

Sounds surreal, right?

Considering we, like we, we barely spent
anything so far, like all our costs for,

for over a year of operation, and with
two MVPs being built, one mobile and one

the one web app, it's been like $10,000
that we spent including legal costs.

And so yeah, that's just, so it's,
it's all about connecting the dots.

I think that's the main job of the
founder and the CEO connecting all the

dots and make sure you've exhausted every
resource before you say, we can't do this.

So yeah, that's the main thing.

And in terms of balancing, well,
there is never any balance, right?

So for us, we've managed to keep our
costs hyper lean, but the main runway

for immi, really it's not the number of
the amount of money in our bank account.

'cause there is still some money.

It's more the amount in my bank
account because I'm the CEO.

So once I am forced to give up,
you know, it's just not gonna live.

Because I'm the bloodline of immi.

People usually come to me because
they want to work with me.

You know, it's a blessing and a
curse, but we have to live with that.

And I just, again, just keep looking
for ways to connect the dots.

So right now it's summer, and
in UK it's the dead season.

Everything is slow.

So it is super annoying.

Yes, but also now is the time when I
can feel less guilt about doing less

for my startup and actually immerse
as much as I can in my side projects.

Just earn that money right now
on this hyper intense project.

Then for another least few months
while we're navigating the fundraising

and stuff, I will not be as stressed
and forced to, you know, look for new

clients, onboard new client projects,
which is always hyper resource intense.

So yeah I'd say, I wouldn't say my
work week looks like you know 15 hour

work days nonstop and no weekends.

No, I still get time off.

I still get time for myself.

Is there a decent worklife balance?

Probably no because work is,

work is on my mind, 24.7.

But all I mean to say is it doesn't
have to be as unhealthy as most

LinkedIn influencers portray.

Prateek Panda: Yeah, that's a good segue.

I mean, one of the things I like to
talk about with all my guests is, you

know, the founder journey is hard.

Even though on the outside it might
sometimes look, you know, beautiful.

Behind the scenes there are a
lot more challenging days than

there are, like easier days.

And you've openly spoken about
like founder burnout, mental

struggles, and you've posted on
your LinkedIn and that's great.

Like we need more people
to be talking reality.

So what are some routines or
practices that you've employed

in your life that helps you sort
of navigate these situations?

Jane Fisher: Certainly therapy.

Therapy is an essential thing.

And again, I had a big break in
therapies because I just couldn't

find myself a new therapist.

'cause for a number of reasons I
lost trust in my previous therapy.

Which happens sometimes you just
outgrow your therapists, at some point.

So for a while I didn't do any sessions
and then I resumed again in December when

I had a really low point when my father
was in the hospital and I lost a friend.

Since then, I try not to skip sessions
even if I don't have much to rant about.

Just because, you know, it
works like hygiene basically.

It's best to clean everything
up before it gives you trouble.

So that's one thing.

Also something I openly spoke, speak
about on my social media, and I feel like

it's super important to raise awareness.

I have a moderate mixed anxiety and
depression disorder, which is like

a medical condition, which may or
may not require medicated therapy.

It's always when it's a moderate
stage, it's always at the

discretion of the patients.

And in my case, after having those really
disheartening depression episodes, I

chose to take medicated therapy because
I know my life is not going to be much

less stressful in the next year or two.

Maybe later it will be, but not now.

So if I don't want to, you know,
experience this paralysis from time

to time and just spend a whole week
being barely able to do anything, and

again, being a lifeline of the company,
you just can't really afford that.

So I chose to opt for antidepressants.

I started them in end of November last
year, and it's been a huge game changer.

I didn't have a single depression episode
since then, and it, it does really help.

So I think recognizing when you
actually need a crutch and not being

ashamed to take that crutch is an
important part of the founder journey.

Doesn't have to be medicated therapy.

It may be you know, actually taking
a full weekend off if that's what

helps you restore or it's keeping
your hobby, if that's what makes you,

you know, helps you keep your sanity.

So always recognizing what
your crutch is and keeping it.

And one more thing that's both
overestimated and underestimated at

the same time and you'll understand
what I mean in a second, is meditation.

Everybody is talking about meditation,
how important this, so that it's, it's a

subject of so many memes, you know, on the
social media, but actually it's no joke.

As long as you implement this instrument
into your life in some form that works

specifically for you, even if it's just
three minutes per day, accumulative

effect of those practices is amazing.

And like I always,

I'm always quite embarrassed about myself
'cause I forget to meditate and then I

don't keep this and it's hygiene, right?

So it's like brushing your teeth.

If you forget to brush your
teeth one day, nothing happens.

Two days, well still nothing happens.

But if you, if you just keep consistently
forget to do this, well at some

point your teeth are gonna go bad.

So same with meditation.

When you do it every day, you become
more stable, you become more balanced

and then you feel the difference.

But after some time, you
no longer appreciate that.

This is the consequence of
you meditating every day.

And because it doesn't hit you
hard straight after you quit, you

sometimes just skip it because
you know what happens, i'm

just not gonna meditate today.

And because they don't feel
the effect immediately.

Then you,

you're not motivated to you know, avoid
skipping it again and you're tempted

to keep skipping it because you have
other stuff to do in your evening.

You wanna talk to someone or you wanna
go out or you've come back too late

and you just wanna go straight to bed.

But it does sit you hard in a few months.

Once that cumulative
effect fade fades away.

So meditation is definitely my number
one recommendation before even.

medicated Therapy because I strongly
believe if I was consistent in my

meditation, I would probably not have
needed to go on antidepressants by now.

Prateek Panda: I can
definitely vouch for that.

I've been meditating for 18 years
now and found a practice that

I feel connected very strongly.

And one of the things that people
actually find it hard to believe, but

I love it that you brought it up is
because if you see, even on my LinkedIn

or people who've worked with me in the
past, a consistent theme you'll see in

testimonials and stuff would be like,
Prateek is always calm and composed and

great to work with and whatever, right?

And in the last 15 years, I've
either always been a founder or a

marketing leader for a startup where
there is it, it's intense, right?

You are responsible to drive leads
and revenue and manage million

dollar budgets and figure out how to
spend money and all of that, right?

It is stressful, but I feel
like the only thing that has

kept me calm and composed and

I use this example, there's
this meme, very popular meme

where there's a dog sitting on
a sofa and the house is on fire.

And you're still sipping on
like coffee or tea, whatever.

I feel like that's always me,
like the house is burning, but I'm

like, okay, let me have my chai
first, sort of attitude, right?

We'll figure out a solution, right?

And something will work out.

But I feel like meditation is what
has helped me be in that state.

It's not that I don't get disturbed or
don't get bothered, I think I'm able to

now bring myself to that centered state
much faster than I could in the past.

So I love it that you brought that up.

Because I feel like only people who've
experienced it can truly say this that,

you know, like it is an amazing thing.

And I love your analogy about brushing
because I've struggled to explain

people why you should do this.

And I think I'm going to use
this analogy going forward.

But it's amazing.

Like you shared about the therapist
and one of the things that I

could also immediately relate
is, you should see a therapist

even when things are going great.

I think people wait too long to go
meet a therapist when it's fine.

Like you go whenever you feel you want
to go, but there is no harm in showing

up even when things are perfectly fine.

Just like you, I used to think
a lot of times, I have nothing

to talk to my therapist today.

Maybe I should cancel my call with her,
but, I even when I show up, something

comes up and I am amazed that we were
able to use 45 minutes to talk about

something that I had not thought of.

Right and I think it's amazing.

And one thing probably I would
also add is having some sort of a

cheerleader around you, it could
be a friend, it could be a mentor.

As a founder in the past I have, you
always tend to compare yourself with other

founders who are way ahead of the journey.

And that makes you feel like
you're not doing as well.

But we rarely do that compared
to like whatever, 98% of the

startups that don't do well.

Right?

You want to be in that 2%.

There was a time when we did, we, me and
my co-founders thought we wanna shut our

company because we are not doing well.

And this mentor of ours, we went to
him to tell, Hey, we are thinking

about shutting the company.

And he was like, why?

Like, and he used to run an accelerator
back then, and about 80 companies

had graduated and he was like, you
guys are among the top 10 companies.

You make revenue, you're sustainable.

Like,

it's okay if you're not able to
raise money, but you're still able

to survive and grow and be among
the top 10 out of the 80 companies.

What are you like worried about?

And then that made us feel that,
okay, yeah, I mean, we want to be that

top 2%, but it's not all that bad.

Like, so you need some sort of a
cheerleader by your side to sort

of make you see some reality.

And yeah, just make you feel a
little bit better about yourself.

Jane Fisher: Yeah, true.

As there are actually two things I
wanted to add in terms of cheerleaders.

I for my personal vanity, I find it
really helpful to find the like really

high position cheerleaders, like those
that you can actually trust 'cause

obviously your mom would always cheer
you with, if it's someone that like you

know, if this person says what you're
doing is should, it's probably should.

But if this person doesn't say that, then
probably what you're doing makes sense.

So I think that helped me multiple times.

And for therapy, I actually
forgot to mention something

that I think changed my life.

Something I learned just a few months ago.

Once on Twitter, on press, I
keep forgetting where it was.

I found someone mentioning that
EMDR is one of the most efficient

therapies that many founders go for.

I dunno if you've heard of that one.

Prateek Panda: I haven't.

Jane Fisher: So it's actually, it's
used mostly for PTSD or at least it

used to be used for PTSD, but it's
actually got far more applications.

And it basically helps you deal with how
you're experiencing a specific negative

emotion and physical projection of it
in the moment, while also it may help

you dig into the root cause of it.

As in like what trauma say in your
childhood or later was the first time

when you felt it, and what impacted your
perception of these triggers right now?

And when you compare it to, say,
psychoanalysis, when you keep on

going to those sessions for years
and years and you keep talking about.

Your childhood or your relationship
with your family, and you were there.

Like, why am I doing this?

Why does this person need all
this information about you?

That was my experience.

When I tried psychoanalysis,
I was hyper inefficient.

And with the EMDR, it's like one
session you walk out fully restored.

I'm not joking.

It's just like pure magic.

And it actually helped me discover some
root causes of certain ways I feel about

my relationship with my employers, in
my actual romantic relationships or

with my clients, you know, how these
things may be related to me wonder

apparently a lot of those things
come from specific to episodes in my

childhood which have nothing to do with
my parents because that's where the

psychoanalysis therapist like to dig.

It had to do with a very different thing.

I had no idea that impacted me that
much but now I actually know where this

huge behavioral patterns come from.

So for the founders that like to be
efficient with their time, who like

to deal with their stress or whatever
negative things we go through, for them

to fade away in just one session, EMDR
is just exactly what I would recommend.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

Thank you so much for sharing that.

I am definitely gonna look it up.

But you know, I enjoyed this entire
conversation because we've been

very open and brutally honest about
all the stuff that's happening.

And one of the things that you've also
mentioned on your, maybe one of your

LinkedIn updates was that you get a lot
of inbound leads from, for immi from these

brutally sincere updates on LinkedIn.

What does that look like
in practice for you?

And as a communications expert also, what
would you advise other founders to do?

Especially because a lot of founders that
I talk to would say, I'm bad at LinkedIn.

I would rather just, you know,
be focused on my meetings or

meeting my customers or whatever.

But they not as comfortable starting
to share things out on LinkedIn.

What's the method or process
that's been working for you?

Jane Fisher: I think for founders
and CEOs, it's important to

understand that LinkedIn is not
distracting them from their work.

LinkedIn is their work.

It's a part of their
lead generation process.

Especially if they hate sales
and outreach because, I mean, it

doesn't replace sales and outreach
but it does make it much easier.

I call LinkedIn branding a
life hack of foreign introvert

because I'm an introvert.

I don't like chasing people.

I have to as a founder and CEO,
but I prefer people to chase me.

And when you're visible, when they
build a personal brand and people reach

out to you, that just helps you, well
at least deal with part of the problem

of having to connect with people.

So I would just say it's a mindset.

It's just treating this as a part of
your job, as a part of your networking,

as a part of your outreach strategy.

And in terms of how it looks like
for me, so with LinkedIn branding

with putting yourself out there,
there is a right way to do it.

Like there is a methodology to do
that from the marketing standpoint

and there is a, an incorrect way to do
it, which is basically what I'm doing.

I don't follow any marketing strategy.

I know I could have had dozens
of thousands of followers by

now if I followed the playbook.

And personally, nothing makes me more
sick when I think of it because I mean,

I work as a consultant in communication.

I already have lots of
content plans for my clients.

Well not right now but
usually that's the case.

And the last thing I want is to have
another content plan for my social media.

So for me, I just, I don't
remember if that was a specific

point I, but I just thought,
well, it just doesn't work for me.

I just want to be myself.

I just want to be that brutally
honest person who writes you

know just the way you think.

So what I put out there in LinkedIn
is exactly what I think and how

I think and so I don't want to
replicate someone else's thoughts.

I don't want to hype on viral trends
unless I actually have something to

say about them and I guess that works.

I mean, yes my audience
is smaller than that of.

LinkedIn influencers, including some
founders, but I still get a decent

conversion of people coming to me
for, I dunno, media outreach or

people coming to potential investors
reaching out to me, potential partners.

So I basically get everything
I want from LinkedIn.

When I was more active as a consultant
on LinkedIn, because now obviously

my whole identity on LinkedIn as
a founder, I effectively destroyed

my identity as a consultant there
which is great for my startup but

not great for my consulting business.

But anyway, when I was more
of a consultant, I got the

consultant leads on LinkedIn.

Now that I'm a founder, I guess all the
leads that the founder wishes to see.

Prateek Panda: Are there one or two things
that you can share for other founders?

Like what are things they can
do to be better at LinkedIn?

Jane Fisher: I think number one like
I said, well what I already mentioned

is that you change your mindset
to, not that it's an extra thing

that you do in your free time, but
rather this is a part of your job.

Just allocate your actual
time during the work to that.

And so what helps is to actually book an
hour in your calendar, you know, say twice

a week, for example, or more if you have
the luxury to, and that hour you just

have to sit yourself down and do something
for your LinkedIn, be it improving your

profile or write in your post and like,
you just can't get outta your workplace.

You can't rise from your
desk until you finish that.

So I think that helps, especially those
with, for those with ADHD brains when

you, when your brain uses every excuse
to get distracted and do something else.

What else?

Well, I

guess I don't like all the advice
about being authentic because it's just

like what does being authentic mean?

I guess if it's not natural
for you to write, then you just

have to develop that ability.

You have to develop that habit of
reflecting in written form first.

And for that reason, again, you have
to book those time slots and you

just try to write, and at first your
posts are not going to be perfect.

So just post whatever you
manage to birth under yourself.

So I'd say just acquire that habit
first, not, don't try to be perfectionist

and just keep trying to keep writing
and see how the world reacts.

And even if you write something,
preach, no one will remember it in

a few weeks or even in a few days.

You know, everybody has their own lives.

So yeah, just stepping across that
barrier, just making, forcing yourself

to overcome that, to step outta the, your
comfort zone, I think it's important.

And that nature makes you authentic
as well, because if you go straight

to Chat GPT and ask it to write posts
for you, then that's what's gonna be

cringe because everybody knows when
a Chat GPT has written your post.

And, but also, I mean, Chat
GPT exists for a reason.

It helps you bounce back ideas.

So if you're not sure how your specific
experience or expertise can be, it's

tied to post or to specific to a specific
trend, it's good just have a chat with it.

So not rather than asking
it to write post for you.

Dump your thoughts into it and
see what it comes back with.

And certainly you have to edit it
manually because again Chat GPT

has its very own signature words
and punctuation, all of that.

So you don't want that on your LinkedIn.

But using AI when you can't
do it by yourself without AI,

it's perfectly acceptable.

I personally never use AI for my
Telegram channel, which I have.

So it's like strict, no AI place
where I'm fully unfiltered.

I normally don't use AI for my LinkedIn
posts except for when I've written

a very long post for my Telegram,
and I use LinkedIn and I use AI to

just translate it just because I'm
too lazy to translate it manually.

So I translate it and just edit out some
things that I think are not working for

LinkedIn because they work great for my
Telegram, but not for a LinkedIn audience.

That's about the only use case I
have for for AI for my LinkedIn.

I try to keep it away from the places
where I'd rather be my own authentic self.

Prateek Panda: That's great.

And I'll make a quick plug about
this program called Ship 30 for

30 I did it maybe three years
ago, and it's a 30 day program.

Every day you put out a
small post on LinkedIn and

when I did that program, I
quickly realized how easy it is.

Like you really don't have to spend
a lot of time to some to do deep

research about a post and so on.

Like if you have the time, great.

Having some structure is always
helpful, but every day in the life

of a founder, something happens that
everybody wants to learn from, right?

So even if you notice those small
things and share those out, you

can quickly build a network.

But one of the things that I
want to touch upon is, let's say

everybody who's listening to this
episode, they get really excited.

They've heard Jane talk about
why LinkedIn is awesome.

They agree that I need to
spend more time on LinkedIn.

It can quickly get de-motivating when
you're not seeing something come back.

Right, one thing we talked about is
the follower count doesn't matter.

I absolutely agree with that as well.

People have, I've worked with influencers
who have hundreds of thousands of

followers and it leads to no engagement.

And I've worked with people who
have three, 4,000 followers and

it gives much better engagement.

So end of the day, the quality of
your audience matters a lot more.

But what are some other things that
you can sort of notice to continue to

motivate yourself to be consistent, right?

It's important to show up, to keep
doing these posts over and over

again, and sometimes it takes a while.

Right?

What would you say to that and
like how do you keep yourself

motivated to keep doing this?

Jane Fisher: Well, I think first
of all, it's important to remember

that growth on LinkedIn takes time.

So the first thing I would advise is,
stop reading all those posts from LinkedIn

coaches about someone getting, I dunno,
50,000 followers in a week or earning I

dunno, $10,000 in one day after one post.

You know, there is always a
statistical exception, right.

So those things are A, not necessarily
true because quite often there is far

more work behind, you know, targeted ads.

Or a post was just randomly liked
and shared by someone very famous

with a huge audience, which is
again, just a statistical exception.

So I'd say, stop stopping, comparing
yourself to those phenomenon and

statistical exception is the most
important step on this journey.

And then secondly, just giving yourself
specific time to test a hypothesis.

Like that's the same thing
you do with startups, right?

You don't just push a product out
there and after you haven't earned

any money or haven't reached, I
dunno, 100,000 downloads in a week,

you don't just give up, right?

No.

You give it a specific timeframe.

You have to give yourself, well I'd say
realistically you have to give yourself

like three month if you've never really
spend time on LinkedIn to just build up

that audience and engagement and people
who follow you and know who you are.

With every new contact that you are
building a relationship with for LinkedIn.

And you also have to like warm up
those contacts, communicate and

interact with 'em on the platform
before you reach out with an ask.

So that again, takes time that I usually
try to give it like at least a few days if

you at least met this person in real life.

If it's someone you're reaching out
to on LinkedIn, it's a big persona and

you have a big ask, then give it at
least two weeks or maybe even more.

And then if you're looking for leads,
I normally, when I talk to my clients,

especially if they're doing something
from scratch, I always say, well, look, I

would realistically give it six months to
really start tracking the leads coming in.

There is no, like if we get
them in earlier grades, but.

Unless you have a budget of a Coca-Cola
or you just pour your money into target

ads while at the same time consistently
give out discounts and also your product

is actually something everybody wants, you
know, it's just not gonna bring you leads.

Prateek Panda: That's great advice.

Jane, thank you so much for sharing that.

As we come closer to the end of
the recording, I want to ask you a

few lighter, rapid fire questions.

So if you're ready, I will
shoot the first question,

Jane Fisher: Sure, go on.

Prateek Panda: What's the one app on
your phone that you can't live without?

Jane Fisher: Oh, I'd say Telegram.

Prateek Panda: Okay.

Your go to comfort food
when you're missing home.

Jane Fisher: It depends on where I am.

If I'm in the UK I'd say I
got quite addicted, addicted

to chicken tikka masala.

When I'm visiting my mom, then I,
especially when it's' summer when I'm

visiting my parents, it's lots of berries,
like any berries, kilos of berries.

That's the comfort food.

Prateek Panda: That's awesome.

If you weren't building immi
right now, what do you think

your career path would look like?

Jane Fisher: I think I would be
working in humanitarian organizations.

I actually did work as a consultant
with WHO for a while part-time, so

maybe I would have been full-time
in this big nonprofit organizations.

Prateek Panda: Amazing.

What's one sort of learning or
advice that you've received as a

founder that you relate to the most?

Jane Fisher: Hmm.

What's one advice?

I

think it's the fact that you really have
to be burning with what you're building.

And I know it sounds cliche, but you know
what, it's actually true because when

everything else fails, if you're, it's
still something that you want to work

out and that's something you want to look
back on in 10 years time thinking I did

that, then everything else is manageable.

Prateek Panda: That's awesome.

Any book or podcast or person
that has recently inspired you?

Jane Fisher: Well, I'm not
much of a podcast person.

As for books, one of the recent
books that I read that I really

liked, it was given to me by my
friend actually, who's a huge fan.

It's Atomic Habits.

I think that's pretty powerful.

But I'd rather talk about
the person that inspires me.

I would say I have a professional crush.

It's the person that builds a medical
startup, which has a mission of making

healthcare accessible to at least
43 percent of people in the world.

Like, that's basically the goal
of SDG in healthcare, I think

so his startup is called Reach.

Oh no, it's not 43, it's Reach 52.

So it's 52%.

And they are a hybrid model of a
startup with nonprofits and they are

delivering both a tech and institutional
innovation and pushing through barriers

to make healthcare available to those
who used to die from curable diseases.

I myself, volunteered in a
charity that does exactly

that, just in a different way.

I have huge admiration to someone
who decided to tie their life with a

goal like that and does it for many
years and does it successfully so

that he's my huge professional crush.

Prateek Panda: and
thanks for sharing that.

I am always fascinated with mission-driven
startups that can make a huge impact.

So thanks a lot for sharing that.

Jane, one last question
before I let you go.

What do you see is the future
of immi and what are some things

that you're looking forward to?

Jane Fisher: Well, my personal goal
is simple, as long as something like

immi or if everything goes well, immi
itself makes a lot of people happier,

actually helps a lot of people.

That's the most important thing for me.

I mean, obviously it would be nice to
make it work as a business and earn some

money from it, but morally I'm prepared
to have immi as the main identity of

myself at least for the time being in my
professional life, but not necessarily

being the main source of income.

Again, if it becomes one grade.

But if we do reach half million people
in the next three years as we strive

to, according to our projections at
Pitch Deck, then that'll be amazing.

Prateek Panda: That's awesome.

Thank you so much Jane, for taking
our time and you know, talking to us.

So many insightful you know, things
that have come up in this conversation.

I really appreciate you
taking out the time.

Jane Fisher: Thank you
so much for having me.

Prateek Panda: And that
wraps up today's episode.

Before we sign off, I would like
to thank you for your support

and thanks for tuning in.

If you loved today's episode.

Then don't forget to subscribe to this
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Be kind, be happy, challenge the norm.

I'll see you folks again for the next one.