Off to the Valley

Nino Melikidze: For most people,
they can always go back home and

you can always go back to what
is known and comfortable for you.

But again, did you immigrate for
the known and comfortable or did you

immigrate for a new experience to
challenge yourself to try something new?

Prateek Panda: Hello and welcome back
to Off To The Valley, the podcast where

we explore the journeys of entrepreneurs
reshaping industries worldwide.

I'm your host, Prateek Panda,
and today we are thrilled to be

joined by Nino Melikidze, the
co-founder and CEO of Immitracker.

Nino is a Georgian immigrant and
entrepreneur now based in Toronto.

She's passionate about helping
immigrants succeed, particularly

in Canada and Australia.

With the background in tech and project
management, she previously founded Visa

Wire, an immigration service marketplace
that later merged into Immitracker.

Nino is also the host of My Immigrant
Story, a podcast quite similar to this

one, which is focused on immigrant
entrepreneurs and professionals.

Nino, it's a pleasure to have you on the
show and welcome to Off To the Valley.

Nino Melikidze: Thank you
so much for having me.

Prateek Panda: Great.

Let's get to know you a little bit better.

You're originally from Georgia,
but, you've been traveling

quite a bit around the world.

Can you tell us a little bit about
your background and where you've been?

Nino Melikidze: Yeah, long story,
but I'll try to summarize it.

So you're right.

Originally from Pelusi, Georgia,
born and raised there, and at the

age of 17, I left to do my undergrad
in the US and a university called

Worcester Polytechnic Institute,
which is one hour out of Boston.

Finished my undergrad in
Information Systems there.

Moved to Boston for a full-time job.

It was very common for students that
went to universities in New England.

Most of us tried to get jobs like
in that area, particularly any big

city we could find around there.

And after a year of living in
Boston, had to deal with some H1B

challenges, which I'm sure your
audience is very familiar with.

And after not being able to secure my H1B
after one trial at the lottery, though my

company sponsored me, I got subsequently
relocated to Bogota, Columbia.

And after that, the same company relocated
me to Vancouver, Canada, which is how I

ended up in Canada in the first place.

And then, after another year of working
with them, I ended up moving to Toronto

around 2019 to kind of pursue my
entrepreneurial passions and become

self-employed and build products.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

So you've had your share of challenges.

My guess is that's what
led you to Immitracker.

Can you tell me a little bit more
about the problem you were facing?

Looks like your company got you to Canada.

What encouraged you to start a company
and then go solve this for other people?

Nino Melikidze: Yeah,
that's a great question.

So, i've been passionate about
building things for a very long time.

I always wanted to do something on my own.

I remember when I was back in Columbia,
I started writing blog posts about my

takeaways of working in a corporate
environment, especially as somebody

that got relocated several times and
had to deal with different cultures.

And then while I was there, I actually
ended up with a problem, which was,

because I kept moving so much, it was
really difficult for me to meet new

people in a very short period of time.

So that's actually what got me into
entrepreneurship in the first place.

I was trying to build an app and
a community to connect people

based on similar interests.

That was my very first startup
that I started back in 2018.

It was called Delphi.

I shut that down later on, but I
had a very funny full circle moment

with Immitracker because an earlier
version of Immitracker, when it

was only known as MyImmi Tracker.

That platform is something I use for
my own Canadian immigration journey.

And then when we started this company
back in 2022, we actually acquired

some of that technology to build
the current company we have now.

So I came full circle that started
in 2018 with something completely

different, was using that
platform for my own immigration.

Then came to this in 2022.

Prateek Panda: Yeah, MyImmi
Tracker is also quite popular.

I moved to Canada.

I used to check their
forums and community a lot.

Nino Melikidze: Its the same thing.

Prateek Panda: Yeah.

That's awesome.

Nino Melikidze: We just rebuilt
it into a different company now.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

So tell me a little bit more, right?

You've, you were in the Boston area, you
moved to Bogota, you came to Vancouver.

Now Toronto.

What have you noticed, at least
culturally or ecosystem wise, and

how have these places been different,
and also how that's influenced you to

become a more holistic entrepreneur?

Nino Melikidze: Well, each one of
these places have very different

world, work cultures, right?

So, I mean, in the US everything
is very straightforward.

Like everybody's hustling.

People wanna move up the career ladder.

People are not afraid to have the
difficult conversations, whether

it's like a salary conversation or
promotion or like getting into a role.

Like it's really about
the go-getter attitude.

Like I remember the very first week
I walked into the training in my old

company, like there was just this
like person doing a sales training and

there was just curse words all over
the place that looked like madman.

And I was like, oh my God, where am I?

But it was normal.

Like people, people are just way
more direct and way more open

to going after what they want.

You move to something like Columbia,
that is not the approach at all.

Work is work.

Work stays at work.

We do not take work outside of
the office, which as you know,

in the US is not the case.

People frequently bring their work home.

A lot is done through these
interpersonal connections.

You're supposed to build up relationships
unless you have certain statuses attached

to you and follow certain bureaucratic
systems, people don't take you seriously.

So that was a dark contrast to what
I was used to dealing within the US

because even as a 22-year-old, you can
get taken seriously in the US if you're

like in the right position, you're
showing the right attitude, not the

case in Columbia because they expect
to be looking at something a little

bit more tenure with a little bit more
certification or like formal background.

Then you come to Canada, which
was an interesting switch for me

because I expected Canada to be
just like the US and it wasn't.

In fact, there are certain things that are
similar, definitely more focused on work

here, but it's a more kind of informal
environment in the sense that people

don't actually tell you what they think.

It's not as open about like
saying what you want or what you

feel or what you're going after.

People kind of dance around
subjects a lot more here, and that's

definitely a challenge that I faced
when I first moved to Vancouver.

I had to work in Calgary as well.

And Toronto's finally the middle
ground that I found between like

the Canadian Canadian culture
and the American work culture.

Here people do a little bit of both, which
has been a more comfortable adjustment for

me compared to everything else I've seen.

Prateek Panda: Got it.

Let's talk a little bit
about Immitracker, right?

In a nutshell, tell our audience
what is it, and you've called

it, the ways of immigration.

So tell us a little bit more.

Nino Melikidze: Yeah, so Immitracker,
the Ways of Immigration, the reason we

called it that, because as you know,
the ways Z crowdsource information from

drivers to help them figure out what's
the most optimal route for their way

home and what are the kind of challenges
that they can face along the way.

Immigration in a nutshell
is very similar, right?

Like, I mean, you went through it so
you know that yes, there is a process.

Yes, there's a high level estimate of what
you have to go through and how long it's

going to take, but the reality that you
experience is frequently very different.

And then people come across different
challenges, requests from the government

and reasonable rejections, delays that
you only become aware of when you talk

to others and understand like, oh,
these five people went through this.

I might expect to go through this
as well, not written anywhere.

And that's what made Immitracker such
an appealing company for me to build.

Because you basically, these people
are taking valuable time out of their

day to provide their information
anonymously to support others and

the community we've built around.

This is beautiful.

We have over eight and a half thousand
people on WhatsApp right now, and these

groups are active every single day.

Every day people share insights about what
they went through, how they're navigating

it, and you can see this like moral
support system that helps them kind of

get through this challenge because let's
be real, immigration's one of the most

challenging things a person is going to do
in their lifetime, because if it was super

easy, everybody would be doing it right.

Prateek Panda: Yeah.

So on that note, right, the
Canadian immigration system is

obviously under a lot of pressure.

When I say pressure, there has been
a significant amount of pressure from

citizens on whether the immigration
system is right or not, and how many

immigrants to let in, all of that, right?

And it's been in the news for a while.

With the recent election, it's
been thrown out a lot more.

Now I'm gonna ask you a question
that is probably relevant for

the two different audiences.

One is founders, the other is also
people who are, who wanna move

to Canada for let's say a job.

What would you tell these two groups,
which is probably, in your opinion,

the best way to come to Canada?

Like, why should founders
come to Canada and what's the

best way for them to get here?

Two is for people who are seeking jobs,
what is the best way to come to Canada?

Nino Melikidze: Great question.

So for founders, I think,
Let's, let's unpack this.

So there is a lot of conversation
going on in the Canadian tech space

and the startup space about Canada
being a difficult place to build and

like its fundraising is harder than
the in the US and there are certain

elements of truth to this rhetoric.

Like there are certain things that
are hard and it is much harder to

fundraise here, and there's like
a little bit more bureaucracy.

Things are a little bit slower
than you find in the US.

That being said, Canada is
still ahead most of the world

when it comes to these things.

Just the sheer amount of talented
people that you meet here that are

as ambitious and as driven as you,
especially actually immigrants.

There are so many immigrants that I
meet that are in the startup space

that are either working for startups
or building their own companies because

they have this ambition to build
themselves and something of their own

in another country is actually crazy.

And this density of people that I've
met specifically in Toronto when it

comes to startup space, the talented,
motivated, creative people that are

building incredible things is rather high.

Later on if you want to continue building
somewhere else, that's entirely up to you.

But I think it's a wonderful place to
get started to kind of like dip your

feet in the water and like move forward
and like start working on your dream.

And also you do have the
Canadian market to work with.

There are benefits from the
government that you can get.

And also you have very close proximity to
the US market as well, and you feel a lot

of Canadian startups building in Canada,
selling in the US, and cutting a lot of

costs when it comes to like very same
like money that they need to be paying and

salaries or like the, just the difference
when it comes to the USD and CAD.

So there's ways to work with it and
I do think Canada is an incredible

place to build because of that,
because the people that you meet and

the environment you have, it's just
significantly better for building that

you're gonna get in most of the world.

When it comes to regular immigrants
that are coming to Canada, one thing I

would say, and this is actually one of
the reasons why I started Visa Wire.

It's very important to understand
where do you fit into the ecosystem

of the country that you're moving to.

And I think a lot of issues
that immigrants face is that

they think of immigration as,
I am going to a destination.

I'm getting there.

I am there.

And once I'm there,
things get figured out.

And I'm sure you've also heard
this from friends of family

members that have immigrated.

Oh, they went there and once they went
there, everything got figured out.

But no, the hardest thing
isn't even the paperwork.

The hardest thing is figuring it out.

And it's funny, actually, I've noticed
this, a funny thing that for the people

that the hardest thing is the paperwork,
the easier thing is figuring out the rest.

And for the people that the
easier part was the paperwork.

The harder thing was
figuring out the rest.

Prateek Panda: Mm-hmm.

Nino Melikidze: I've seen this, but
nobody gets both done equally well, ever.

And I've seen this issue come up even
in our communities, that people get

their paperwork, they come to Canada,
they want to get settled, and then

they realize that the jobs that they
came here for are not really here.

Or they didn't research if the jobs
are available or they realize it's

really hard to get the job because
people expect Canadian work experience,

certain qualifications or they don't
want to work a few levels down.

Because I was a VP or I was a
director back home and I don't

wanna be starting from scratch.

And that's why you have a lot of these
issues of people complaining about

them not being able to get jobs because
it's hard to break in initially.

Prateek Panda: You mentioned a
little bit about Visa Wire and I

want to sort of touch upon that.

What was different about visa wire?

You decided to merge it into Immitracker.

What was that whole pivotal
moment that led to that shift?

Nino Melikidze: So Visa Wire was
my initial attempt at breaking into

the immigration industry along with
the My Immigrant Story podcast that

I used to host for a few years.

I was very passionate about immigration.

It played a very big role in my own story,
and I wanted to find a way to fix this

space because as you know, it's a rather

complicated, difficult space that's
riddled with older school players

that don't really actually help the
people going through the process.

So, Visa Wire was started with the
intention that I wanted to build a

marketplace of employment services
that would help immigrants secure jobs

starting in Canada and then other places.

The reason why Visa Wire ultimately got
shut down and the marketplace model got

put on Immitracker is because it's hard
to fix a problem as a startup when the

problem is a part of the foundational
structure, like of the country itself.

Like I can try to list all the employment
service providers that can hire an

immigrant on my platform, but I can't
change the culture of employers being

less willing to hire new immigrants.

I can't put jobs on there that people
are not hiring for and I can't like

put services that actually help you
transition into becoming employable

in Canada, if they don't exist.

And yes, there's settlement agencies
provided by the government, but

if they were doing a good job, you
wouldn't be having this issue of

work and like talent mismatch, right?

You have these talented
immigrants that are not settling.

So I realized it's a structural issue,
and I realized that partially is because

of the government bringing in a certain
percentage of immigrants that just did

not fit the economic and labor demands.

And as a result, those
people couldn't find a job.

Or the system itself of hiring immigrants
was very broken, and I can't go ahead

and fix every employer in the country.

So that's why we switched to a
marketplace of services that would be

relevant to immigrants, so financial
services, immigration services, so forth.

And we merged that into Immitracker
and pursued a different venture.

Prateek Panda: What are some things
you learned in the previous journey

that you are sort of carrying forward
in the Immitracker journey as well?

Nino Melikidze: From my previous
startups, like Visa wire and my

very first one, well, one is that,
you have to be okay with failing.

Like that's a very big one, and I think
that's a hard one for a lot of startup

founders because it takes a certain
mindset to undertake this and repeatedly

being told no, or this is wrong, or this
is not going any over and over again.

It does become very mentally taxing
and being able to wake up every single

morning, look at yourself in the mirror
and say, I'm still passionate about this.

I still want to do this.

I will find a way to make it work.

Or, I have the strength to stop this
because I know it's not going anywhere.

And like facing the consequences
of it is very, very hard.

And this is something that I've been
grappling for years, but at the end

of the day, you have to do what's best
for the business, and you have to do

what's best for you and your emotions
about how it all of this makes you feel.

And how these rejections or
the business not working out

make you feel, don't matter.

You have to face the truth.

So that was one thing that I learnt.

Another thing I learnt that
ideas don't mean anything.

Ideas are a dime a dozen.

You can have a thousand wonderful
ideas, but it all comes down

to the execution, right?

And if you don't know how to execute or
you can't execute, or if you're executing

in the wrong place at the wrong time,
which is a very valid point, and it's

just not going, you have to confront those
realities and no one to cut your losses.

So, and I've seen this a lot, you
probably see this with founders as well.

They're like, oh, I have
all these amazing ideas.

Whose working on them?

Is it gonna be you?

And if it is you, do you have a
plan on how you're gonna do this?

And half, 90% of the time, no,
99% of the time, those ideas don't

go anywhere because a good idea
means nothing without execution.

So I think those are
the two main takeaways.

And the third one I would say is
choose your market very carefully.

Understand the importance of the
right market at the right time.

And yes, you could be passionate
about something, but really have

to be like, really look into this.

Does this market have potential?

Yes, be passionate, but you also
need to look at the longer term

trajectory, and I think a lot of
people build for their dream, but

they don't really look at, is this the
right place to be building right now.

Prateek Panda: Yeah, that's an
interesting thing because as founders

we tend to get very emotionally
attached to our ideas as well.

You said one thing about
market signals, right?

And knowing whether you're in the
right market at the right time.

In your experience, have you
been able to figure out a way

to get these signals quickly?

Nino Melikidze: I don't know if there's
a way of getting these signals quickly,

aside from, well, NFX has a few good
articles about this, and one thing they

say is like, you have to look at the
window for a certain market segment.

Like for example, they would say,
early two thousands was the window for

building consumer apps, because that's
when there was the highest demand.

So if you're building a consumer app
right now, when you're trying to compete

with an Uber or a Lyft, it's much
harder for you to get into that window

than it was, let's say 10 years ago.

Right?

So being cognizant of the very obvious,
like windows is the first thing you

need to do, for example, immigration.

Immigration, I do think the
window is open because it's just

such an old school industry.

Immigration just has different issues
because it's an old school industry.

The adoption rate and the
barrier to break in is very high.

So that's what makes it difficult here.

But I don't think the
window is closed here.

But then if you're trying to compete with
your Facebooks of the world, good luck.

Like that window, that one market
is a little bit oversaturated,

so you can go about it that way.

And the other option, on top
of already considering all

of it is just start building.

Like you wanna build an
AI, let's say, right?

Everybody and their mother
is building an AI right now.

So segment out further.

Yes, you wanna do AI, but what
portion of the market hasn't

been tapped with AI tools yet?

Like if you're trying to build
yet another AI productivity tool,

how many are there right now?

You probably know more than me, there's
like hundreds at this point, thousands.

But what about applying AI to older
school industries, like going into

mining or steel or something like that?

Probably hasn't been done as much, but
you, you can still build an AI, just

build in a thing that isn't oversaturated.

You can do your research, and the
rest is all about execution and

seeing where your product takes you.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

Thanks for sharing that, Nino.

You mentioned, a little bit, you know,
in one of your responses you've built a

WhatsApp community of over 8,000 people.

Can you tell us a little bit about
how you got to the point where you

built this community and what are you
doing to keep that community engaged?

Nino Melikidze: Yeah, so I mean
you mentioned even when you

used the earlier version of
Immitracker, there was a forum then.

So we discovered, I did a lot of
product like research and work

when I first took on this company.

We completely revamped the platform
and building it into a new thing.

And what I learned then, the forum was a
little bit of an older school approach.

People like fast responses.

And I saw that even if you go on
like something like the Canada

Visa forum, people will frequently
link WhatsApp group links.

So we started linking WhatsApp
groups to the main tracker.

So let's say you are applying for the
Canadian Experience Class program.

You go to the Canadian
experience class tracker.

On Immitracker, you'll see a
button for the WhatsApp group.

You click on it.

Every group in our community
is moderated personally by me.

I approve every person manually.

I send the group rules.

I remove anybody that's a spammer
people already know to tag me.

And as a result of these efforts, we've
grown this community to over eight and

a half thousand people since mid 2023.

So in less than two years we
got here because we just let,

and the wonderful thing about
this is that it self moderates.

These people know what conversations
they should be having there.

They're not gonna try to have a
conversation about a wonderful day and

a group about Canadian experience class.

They want to know like, Hey,
where's your application at?

And is it stuck?

So, as long as you give them like certain
high level guidelines and moderate

it on a high level and make sure that
you remove the bad actors, the people

just do a wonderful job themselves.

And that's how we ended up
with this massive community.

And honestly, I get messages every single
month for people be like, thank you for

doing business has been a massive life
changing experience for us that has

kept us sane throughout this process.

That sounds like an intense amount
of work to do as one individual to

sort of monitor, you know, all of
these groups and keep an eye on it.

So you're definitely doing an amazing
job, and I think as an immigrant myself,

I have found tremendous amount of value,
even in its former glory as a forum.

So I can only imagine how much more
helpful it is in a more modern format.

Have you noticed any unexpected ways
in which people are using Immitracker?

Like something that you didn't think
that this is what people would do,

but they still find a use case.

Well, one thing that I found was
interesting, it's not specifically

Immitracker that they're using,
but I saw the same community.

There's an app called Countdown,
which people just use for like

writing down certain milestones.

I was not expecting it, but my community
is flooded with this Countdown app.

It's because people found a way to use
this regular like alert timer app to build

out a privee version of their immigration
timeline that they put like color code

or they put icons on and they just share
the screenshot of it in the community.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

Nino Melikidze: Yeah.

I would've never thought of that.

And I, at first I thought it
was a competitor product, but

then it was just the Timer app.

The countdown app,

And then they just do
different versions of it.

And actually that's inspiring a lot
of our product growth and development

at Immitracker because we are going to
be introducing a mobile version as a

result of the research that I saw, the
research that in the community we're

gonna introduce a mobile version that
makes it easier for them to do the same

thing on Immitracker later this year.

But that's, I got inspired for
that because these people just

used a completely different app
for a completely different purpose.

And you see things like this regularly.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

I remember, I did my Canadian
immigration application in 2019.

And I used to be in California back then
and somebody used to maintain this sort of

Google sheet where people would go upload
when did they submit the application and

update like, when do you get the next,
you know, the invitation to apply or

whatever, like all the stages in between.

And people would keep a counter
between days and I would go keep

checking that because I would want
to know like, okay, I haven't heard

anything about my application.

Is it still within that window or not?

Nino Melikidze: That still exists.

That's still, I would say like of all
the things, when people ask me what

my biggest competitor is, I actually
think those sheets are our biggest

competitor because realistically
like what you get on Immitracker and

in those sheets is the same kind of
data, except Immitracker makes it 10

times easier to work with it analyse

it and add in your case, by the
way, they don't allow you to add in

your own data to the Google Sheets.

Now you have to like individually
message some admins so that he adds

in your data.

it.

Because people kept
screwing up the sheets.

Prateek Panda: Yeah, I can imagine.

Okay.

Let's talk a little bit about psychology,
because I feel like as immigrants,

that is one topic that you know, it's
harder to understand the challenges if

you're not an immigrant yourself because

you come to a new country with a
lot of fear and baggage already,

the fact that you don't know anyone.

When I came to Canada, I knew zero
people, like when I had moved for

the first time to the US I at least
knew a few people because like they

went, we went to school together or
a friend of a friend or whatever.

But for whatever reason, I just
couldn't find anybody that I

knew in Vancouver back then, and

yeah, and it can get stressful.

You're trying to build a startup
or you know, and you're trying

to have a social life as well.

I have spoken to my friends who moved from
India, built startups, but eventually got

so sort of secluded and almost depressed
of not having a social life that they

eventually decided to move back to India.

And culturally it's very different, right?

Like being an Indian there, we don't have
boundary of physical space around us.

We are like more than one and
a half billion people, right?

So there's always people around.

So there's always people in your house.

It's rare to go by a few days and
you've not met someone or somebody's

not come to your house, right?

And then you come to this
place and you're sort of alone.

You have to build new relationships.

You have to understand
new cultural mindset.

Now for you, moving to the US
and then Canada, what have you

done to sort of stay resilient?

And you talk, talked about a little bit
that you had your own share of challenges

in, you know, making new friends and
finding new people, to meet with.

What have you figured out
something that works for you

now that makes you feel better?

Nino Melikidze: Great question.

Yes.

So the math that I did in my hand on
this is that it on average takes at

least four to six months for you to begin
feeling somewhat comfortable in a place.

Somewhat comfortable.

I'm like the very bare minimum.

Like even if you're very extroverted,
even if you go to events, like yes,

you can ramp up a bunch of random
connections quickly, but starting to

make those connections that are real,
like friendships that might go somewhere,

certain comfort with the layout of the
land and so forth, four to six months.

That's just been my experience of
moving several times, and even when

I moved to a place where I knew
people, it still took me that long

to begin feeling comfortable there.

So that's first of all.

Second of all, Vancouver, I
completely understand Vancouver

is a harder city to ramp up in.

I had the same exact issue as you there.

I felt that slightly less in
Toronto, by the way, but that's

'cause Toronto is a bigger city.

More people, more people move
in, in and out all the time.

So there's more flexibility to join
certain friendships opposed to Vancouver

where things are a little bit more
closed off and more about who you know.

So the culture of the city or the
location you move to also matters.

That being said, the system
that I have put in place is.

You just have to put yourself, you have
to keep putting yourself out there.

Like don't get overly attached
to the initial experiences,

to the first friendships.

Like I've cycled through several friend
groups ever since I moved to Toronto,

before I started more or less settling on
the people that I kept around just going

to events or certain activities like maybe
workouts or community events or whatever

it is where you can find like-minded
people and just doing it regularly

without high expectations of I have to
make a friend every single time I go is

the way to go and let it take its time.

Like let it flow.

Like don't rush it.

Don't be hard on your side.

I feel like a lot of immigrants do this.

Probably the

same thing happened

to your friends, like within three months,
so they haven't really met anybody.

Oh, I'm never gonna find anybody here.

This is not my place.

For most people, they can always go
back home and you can always go back to

what is known and comfortable for you.

But again, did you immigrate for
the known and comfortable or did you

immigrate for a new experience to
challenge yourself to try something new?

This is part of the challenge,
and I would treat it as such.

Prateek Panda: Yeah, that's great.

And I think it sort of reminded me of
a few things that I used to do as well.

In the beginning, again, you try to
stay in your comfort groups, right?

Or your comfort zone areas.

I used to go to a lot of startup events,
and then I got exhausted of doing that

and I realized like, okay, I don't want
to meet more tech founders right now.

I want to meet some other people.

And that's when I started
going to like the randomist

of things like coffee meetups.

There is a running group in the
morning where we, you do a short

run and then you have coffee and
you chat and get to know people.

There is a book club, a yoga group,
busing on the street or whatever, like

joining a choir, whatever it is, right?

So many things you could do where
you can build a diverse network.

And I really liked one thing that you
said is don't get attached to the circles

that you create almost immediately.

Over time, you'll realize who
are the more longer term friends

and relationships you'll build.

But you know, just being more open
to that idea is definitely helpful.

Nino Melikidze: Yeah, I mean this comes
from a lot of personal experience,

Right.

Like I've learned that like most of
the circles that I would may like

meet and like form within the first
like six months of me being somewhere.

Most of the time, a lot of those
people would end up going away later.

Because

you move in different directions,

Yeah.

These are the people that you met and
you grabbed onto because you really

needed something at a certain time.

But what you really need once you truly
mature in a location, and by the way, that

takes at least two years in my opinion.

Like if you're in a place for two
years or more, that's when you really

start putting down your roots there.

Then you realize that what you
meant then doesn't actually

meet your needs longer term.

And that's like, be
flexible with the process.

Allow yourself to meet new people.

Don't get bogged down.

Don't get mad at yourself
for not immediately meeting

the people that you want.

And just be open to the
change all I'm saying.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

So Nino, tell me this, right?

Your Immitracker also has, you
know, it's fairly mission driven.

It's solving a major pain point, but it's
also sort of, you're really helping people

figure out their move to a new country.

And so there's a fair amount
of mission behind that.

Do you ever feel torn between
sort of serving the mission

and scaling the business?

Like you could find numerous ways to
make more money or scale it up, but

there's also the mission component to it.

Do you ever feel torn
between those decisions?

Nino Melikidze: Absolutely.

I mean, I think any founder of a
consumer startup has felt this at some

point because yes, you love your users.

Yes, you wanna help them.

Yes, you wanna keep delivering
the service, but end of the day

business is a business, right?

And this is what makes building
a consumer business in a

non-consumer time very difficult.

Because before businesses could get
away with like raising several rounds of

money without having to deal with this.

But now you have to deal with
it in the earlier stages.

And this is a learning experience
that I had to go through for the first

year, year and a half of Immitracker.

Realizing, yes, the mission is there.

I care about my users.

I want to give to them as much as
possible for free, but this is a business

and I need to find a way to scale it.

So, since mid last year, we've been
finding alternative ways to generate

revenue and focus on different market
segments for revenue generation because

reality is that it is a business that
needs to scale, and we do want to keep the

core props of value prop of Immitracker
always free and available for our users.

So we're trying other ways
of building a product in a

different direction as a result.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

As we get closer to the end
of this session, I want to ask

you a couple of more things.

If you were to launch or build
Immitracker today, are there some

things you would do differently?

Nino Melikidze: Ooh.

Good question.

Very good question.

I think what I would do differently is
that I would start it as a B2B product,

with a community for the B2C component,
and then I would distill the B2B product

into a consumer product afterwards rather
than doing it the other way around.

Because starting off as consumer and then
building into B2B, I have a big audience

and the user base basically, that I still
need to serve while also working towards

putting out a B2B version of the product
to generate more revenue and scale.

And that makes it very difficult
because as you already mentioned,

the consumer focuses a lot of work.

But

then if you had started with B2B, and
worked through a few business, clients,

like had an enterprise version going,
started to generate revenue, creating a

subsidiary version of that product for
the consumer, which you see actually

a lot of the big brands do, would be
significantly easier in my opinion.

So I would've just changed that.

Prateek Panda: Got it.

Last thing, what is your advice to some of
the immigrant founders that are listening

to the show who are trying to break into
the tech ecosystem in North America?

It could be US or Canada.

What's some advice you would
give to new immigrant founders?

Nino Melikidze: Honestly,
just get started.

You don't have to have a perfect plan.

Well, let's, let's kind of
like recap this a little bit.

Yes, just get started.

But don't just drop everything
and be like, that's it.

I'm a founder today.

I'm walking into this and do like,
have a plan, because as an immigrant

you have slightly more considerations
to make than as a local person.

Like for example, I've seen plenty
of my friends they're Canadian

that would like move in with their
parents, live in the basement,

work out of the garage, whatever.

Most of the time as immigrants,
you don't have that option.

You either have a family back home
that you're supporting, or maybe you

took on a mortgage that you're paying
for yourself or you, maybe you have a

family that you need to support and you
don't have parents to support you here.

Like there's a lot of considerations
financially that you need to

be making as an immigrant.

So keep that in mind as you
go into this and have a plan.

But I would potentially
start as a part-time thing,

as a bootstrap engagement.

See how it goes.

Definitely go for it.

Definitely explore and if you see the
traction, if you see the interest, if

you think that you have it in you, and
you can go down this direction, then

by all means, the world is your oyster.

Prateek Panda: Amazing.

Thank you so much for that advice.

Nino.

This was an amazing conversation.

Thank you for taking our time and
sharing your experience and your journey.

I'm sure this is very, very
helpful to everybody listening.

Thank you.

Nino Melikidze: Thank you so

much for having me.

Prateek Panda: And that
wraps up today's episode.

Before we sign off, I would like
to thank you for your support

and thanks for tuning in.

If you loved today's episode.

Then don't forget to subscribe to this
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Be kind, be happy, challenge the norm.

I'll see you folks again for the next one.