Off to the Valley

Vlad Gozman: The whole entrepreneurial
journey, although there are

tons of resources nowadays and

it became more and more
transparent also through the work

of podcasts such as yourself,

I think that still the entrepreneurial
journey is way too glamorized and

when you open up media outlets,

you read about the funding stories,
you read about the exits, but you don't

read about the burnout, so I want to say

that I think from my own experience
the entrepreneurial journey is always

walking on the cusp of burnout.

Prateek Panda: All right, hello everybody
and welcome back to Off To The Valley,

a podcast that brings to light the
incredible stories of those who left the

familiarity of home for New Horizons.

I'm your host Prateek Panda, always
curious and eager to share these

journeys of courage and determination.

Today, we are excited to have
Vlad Gozman with us, whose journey

encapsulates the spirit of this podcast.

Vlad, originally a budding musician
transitioned into the tech world,

pioneering innovative digital solutions.

And after moving to Vienna and
initially dabbling in virtual reality.

He identified a more pressing need
for improved customer engagement,

leading to the creation of InvolveMe.

This platform transforms how
businesses interact with customers

by offering easy to use no code tools

for creating personalized digital
content like forms, surveys, and quizzes.

Our conversation today will not only
cover Vlad's personal achievements

and professional achievements,

but also the personal
experiences that shaped his path.

Vlad, welcome to Off to the Valley.

I'm eager to have you on the show and
very excited to share your journey.

Vlad Gozman: Prateek,
thank you for inviting me.

Happy to be here.

Prateek Panda: Awesome.

So tell us a little bit
about your background Vlad.

I know you were born in Romania.

At some point you decided
to move to Austria.

How was your childhood like?

Did it play any role in your
journey as an entrepreneur?

Vlad Gozman: Sure, yes originally
born in Romania, I think one

interesting piece of information

is that I spent six years in communism,
the first six years of my life.

So I was born in a communist
regime in Eastern Europe, which

by many historical accounts,

was the most violent and
oppressive one in Eastern Europe.

Yes, so I was born in a communist regime
in Eastern Europe, which was the most

violent and oppressive
one in Eastern Europe.

So I was born in a communist
regime in Eastern Europe, which

by many historical accounts,

And I think that definitely
shaped who I have become.

And there are tons of experiences that
I can share, not necessarily from the

first six years, although I have
some vivid memories from that time

as well, but also the nineties

and the early two thousands,
which was a wild west in Romania

where, you know people who spent

most of their time in communism during
their life were faced with the chances

but also the challenges
of freedom and capitalism.

Interesting times, I would say.

Prateek Panda: That's very interesting.

And At what point did you
decide to move to Austria and

what was that really fueled by?

Vlad Gozman: So actually, I was born
in the western part of Romania, a town

called Arad near the Hungarian border.

And we had a German school there.

So none of my family members speak German.

They actually had to learn Russian
back in communism but Russian was not

a global language, so they
wanted for me to have that.

And the fact that there was a German
community there with a school I got lucky.

And one of our neighbors,
she was a teacher.

So when I was four my, my mother basically
created a pact with her so she would

take me over every day and
basically talk to me just in German.

Which led to be learning
German in parallel.

So I think that was the basis for me
later on moving to a German speaking

country and making it
definitely easier for me.

But then later on when I moved
out with 18 I went to Bucharest,

where I studied economics.

And my father was a programmer,
a programmer that used

punch cards to program.

I also dabbled a bit in it and at
school, we actually took some classes

but I wanted to go a bit more
towards the business route.

That's why I went into economics
in Bucharest and there,

while finishing university, I
founded my first company, which was,

a consulting agency for EU funds.

So I helped other businesses, mainly
from industry and agriculture,

to get money from the EU.

As Romania, and this was 2007,
Romania had just joined the EU so

there were a lot of funds available,

For businesses to modernize their
infrastructure and get aligned with the

EU norms that were imposed to Romania.

So I helped them get funding and
build a business around that.

And then three years later, when I
got the chance to exit the business,

I looked around went through

Europe, through Western Europe, to
different cities, and settled on Vienna,

as it was The opposite of Bucharest,
I would say, in many regards.

And that's how I landed here.

Prateek Panda: One thing
that's interesting and it

reminds me of my journey.

My first startup journey also
is I started my first company

right out of university as well.

In fact, started working on it
while I was still in university.

What would you advise people
who are in university?

A lot of people have different
thoughts around when to do a startup?

Some people are of the opinion, go
work for someone first and learn

the trade and then do a startup.

What would you like to share with
people who are listening to this,

who are still in university and
probably thinking of doing a startup?

Vlad Gozman: So I can only talk
from my experience and I wouldn't

say that there is a recipe or that
I believe that there is a recipe.

There are no things that
work well in general.

Personally, what I did before starting the
startup during university, I worked first

part time and then for a specific time.

I also scaled it up to full time
to the detriment of a few classes

that I had, but I still finished.

I had two jobs and both of them were
around founders, so there were already

established businesses and more

classic businesses, so one in retail and
one in construction, but they were both

very successful entrepreneurs and I
got the chance to work close by their

side, learning some of the trade,

I would say, and then founding my
first company really came out of

a project that I had at university.

I wrote my diploma on writing up a
funding project for an actual company.

And that turned to be then
my first customer, basically.

So the advice I would say is twofold.

One is if you already know the
direction that you're going and

I think I intrinsically knew it.

I consciously was not completely
aware of it when I got the first jobs.

But intrinsically, I knew it that I
wanted to move into entrepreneurship,

as it was quite the opposite
of what my parents were doing.

And the whole communist experience
where, they would they had

three jobs their whole lives.

And they were employed either by the
state or mostly by the state, basically.

And so I wanted to go in an opposite
direction, so they came very intrinsically

as a reaction to that experience.

And then later on, I
consciously realized it.

But if you have a realization or an
intrinsic push, then search for I

would say search for the environment

that that gives you the right tools
and the right lessons that you

can take on your journey first.

I think in some cases it's not necessary,
but I think, in most cases it will help.

So that's my first advice.

The second is try to
look for actual problems.

This was the case with with a
business application for a new grant.

It was actually a problem.

It was businesses that had a working
business in a specific industry,

they did not know the ins and
outs of the whole new regulation.

So it was a new field, it
was a chance there to help

them out and, wherever there,

there is a problem and you
really can offer a solution,

money is naturally attached to
it if it's a capitalist system.

Prateek Panda: Got it,
and that's good advice.

One thing I would want to probe more
on is the problem validation part.

Do you have a particular process that
you try to use to validate the problem?

I see a lot of people build first
only to find a problem later.

The solution has already been built and
it is in search of a problem, right?

What are your observations
around problem validation?

Vlad Gozman: Yeah, I think problem
validation is a huge problem.

Yeah.

So basically I've been there,
I've been there a few times.

It's tough.

It's very easy to fall in
love with a concept and then

do your best to make it real.

And it's very easy to find
biased validation, I would say.

So what my suggestion would be is
whenever you do, whatever you do, right?

So just keep your eyes open.

There are problems at every
step, whatever you do, right?

And when you identify something that you
think is a problem, don't go head first.

I've done it, wrongfully thought that
there is a problem, but that doesn't mean

that there is a big enough market for it.

It doesn't mean that the problem
is important enough for it

to be monetarily rewarded.

So there are a lot of intricacies
about it, it might be a problem,

and in most cases when you think it's
a problem it might be a problem there.

So it's, in most cases
it's true, but in most

cases, it might not be true
that the problem is of enough

importance to that core market.

So my advice there is to dampen
your expectation and to really

get as much data in as possible.

And this is the hard part.

This is where you can put out, I
don't know, a simple landing page.

Yeah.

That, that doesn't take that much work.

Describe a solution for that
problem and then try to get

as many potential customers

in the door to jump on calls with
and do things that don't scale by the

to adhere to the Y Combinator mantra

and try to get validation from
the field, from real people.

who experience the problem and
who can validate not only that

they're in need for a solution,

but only also that they will
pay for it, that the problem is

big enough to make a difference.

Prateek Panda: Okay.

It makes sense.

And especially in the world where
today there are so many no code tools

and AI is there to ship things faster.

And also you've been working with AI long
before chat GPT, open AI was mainstream.

What are your thoughts on leveraging these
tools to ship things faster, but not being

trapped in the loop of, Hey,
it's easier to build now.

Okay.

So let's just go build a bunch
of things, we'll see what sticks.

Do you have a take on that?

Vlad Gozman: Yes, definitely.

So first of all, yes, it's true.

I've been working with my
previous businesses, for instance.

I've co founded another
SaaS more on the enterprise.

In the enterprise corner called it
Verity where it's ETL for marketing

data aggregation and insights

automation and, worked with
Machine Learning, so maybe AI

might be now the wrong term to use

but I think now when people say AI,
it's generative AI that they mean

so I've seen everything evolve.

It was way harder.

So when we've started at Verity
back in late 2012 prototyping it.

It was much, much harder to to put
something out and to validate it.

Nowadays, I agree.

As you mentioned, Prateek, there is a
whole landscape of tools that allow you

to from the simplest things to set up

landing pages easily to even
build MVPs in certain cases.

But that has a downside to it, that
it's easier than ever to get them

to fall in love then with the MVP

and continue on the building path
rather than the validation path.

I think it's self discipline, right?

So you you should set clear goals.

And I have a stance on this.

I think I'm not a friend of doing too
many things at once because I've done

it a few times and most of the times

it worked less well than when I
focused on one particular thing.

And I think you can take things at a time.

I think there are two schools on this.

I see it on social, Twitter, LinkedIn.

There are tons of threads that you
can find where people build in public,

where people say, I'm going to build

one product per month or per week
or whatever the cadence is nowadays.

I don't remember having seen
one of them particularly

successful or if then that might

be the exception to the rule,
at least from my observation.

So I would rather be in the school
of be careful what you focus on,

obviously, and take the time to find

the right problem solution that you
want to focus on, but then also invest

enough time on it to validate it before

moving to the next one or before
going deeper with that specific one.

Prateek Panda: That makes sense, Vlad.

Let's switch gears a little bit.

Tell us something more about InvolveMe.

How did you come up with the idea?

What does it do?

And how's the journey going so far?

Vlad Gozman: Sure, happy to do.

We're basically at that involve me.

We're on a mission to make it as easy
as possible for businesses to involve

their customers and meaningful
digital conversations.

And We do that by leveraging no
code, as you said, and AI to simplify

and automate different processes

like the creation, the personalization
and the automation of forms.

And then businesses they use
these forms that range from simple

contact forms to more complex

price offer calculators
and product recommenders.

They leverage them on their websites
mainly to increase conversions

and to gather better quality data.

We're a bootstrap business.

When we started, we basically started
with a completely different product.

We and that's what I
said in the beginning.

I speak from experience that validation
matters because the product that

we started with was in a completely

different sector, and we
didn't do enough validation.

And then we invested some time, some
of our own money to build an MVP.

Just to realize that that there
is no market for it, in essence,

or not enough of a market for it.

We tried to build something in
the VR space that was 2016, 2017.

We tried to build a no code
tool for creating basically a

content management system for VR.

Completely different than Involve
Me and then to sustain sort of

the team and while doing the MVP,

we started doing some agency
work and the agency work revolved

around these interactive forms

that we started building for
businesses and while once we

realized, okay, the VR play is

not particularly going to be very
successful, Realizing our own faults,

we started doing some customer
development on on the side of our agency,

customers trying to find why they would
still pay us if there were already

a few off the shelf tools, right?

So Typeform was around
SurveyMonkey and a few others.

And we identified a few points that
made it obvious to us that we could

build a SaaS solution around it.

And then once we created that MVP, we
converted those agency customers to SaaS,

to the SaaS model, and then switched
all of our efforts a hundred percent

to InvolveMe and then we
launched it in early 2019.

And since then, grew it
steadily with with a small team.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing
Vlad, thank you for sharing that.

Tell me a little bit more about what
was happening personally as you were

trying to build Involve Me, right?

I think you've talked a little
bit about, having to pivot.

You went into an agency model, came
back with a new idea and so on.

I'm sure there is a lot more
happening in personal life that

is also influencing in a good way

or bad way while all these
changes are happening, right?

What was your journey like
while you were figuring out this

whole process for InvolveMe?

Vlad Gozman: Sure.

The whole entrepreneurial journey,
although there are tons of resources

nowadays and it became more and more

transparent also through the work of
podcasts such as yourself, I think

that still the entrepreneurial journey

is way too glamorized and when you open
up media outlets you read about the

funding stories, you read about the exits,

but you don't read about the burnout
right, so I want to say that I

think from my own experience the

entrepreneurial journey is always
walking on the cusp of burnout.

And, you as a founder,
need to be aware of that.

And to give yourself the time and
the mental space to counteract it.

Otherwise it will catch up with you and
at some point you'll fall off the cliff.

Now I was very close several times.

Luckily it didn't happen.

But I try to be always mindful
and try to set up some routines,

some habits that help me

counteract the stress that
is prevailing to this day.

Prateek Panda: Can you share a
little bit more about some of

these routines that probably others
could also apply in their life?

Vlad Gozman: Sure.

It's not probably nothing that special,
but I think trying to build some healthy

habits will work for most people.

So one thing that I realized
I tried to implement sports in

my daily routine and usually my
workday starts early, goes late.

You know how it goes.

Everybody can relate most
likely in the audience.

And I always try to do sports
then in the evening, and I fail.

I did it for a few weeks,
then, a few meetings happen

and then you break the habit,

and then it's, again, starting
from zero to get into it.

And one change that I made is
that I Shifted to mornings.

So I started building a
routine in the morning where

it's way more predictable how

my first hours look like
then in the evenings.

Having done that I'm way more
consistent with with my routine.

My routine is pretty simple.

So it's stretching, it's
doing some weights, it's doing

some cardio, and then topping

everything off with a
short meditation session.

I package it into 45 minutes, you
can do it shorter even, or longer,

depending on your time frame.

And for me doing it in the morning,
it makes it way, way more consistent.

And just by doing that one thing,
I think already it improved

the life quality that I have.

Maybe another one, this is
more geared towards the whole

company, is two years ago

I think June or July.

It's going to be two years.

We shifted to a four day work week.

We're one of the few companies that do
it in Austria and do it successfully.

It has its pitfalls and and
it's definitely not easy.

And there are some things that
you lose, but there's also a

lot of things to be gained.

And even though personally, I work
five or more days, Having that one day

is a different routine for me, right?

So it's a different kind of
work that I package in that day.

And it gives me a bit of more
mental space because it breaks

the sort of the office routine.

And for my colleagues and the
whole team, it's definitely a

benefit in their work life balance.

Yeah.

Prateek Panda: That's great.

Did anything particularly inspire you
to bring in the four day workweek thing.

I've read the book long back actually,
and I've read read a lot of news also.

Most recently, some larger companies
also in the EU region trying it out.

I think it was Microsoft that
I read but I could be wrong.

But is there a particular
inflection point where you thought,

Hey, should I experiment with
this four day workweek thing?

Vlad Gozman: Yes, I think the it
is I'm not particularly advocating

for it, I'm saying that for us,
it works and I think it works

right now at this point in time, because
It has a lot to do with automation, with

AI especially with with generative AI.

So we've over the last 18 months,
we've implemented generative

AI into all parts of not only

the product uses AI to generate
forms, to personalize them but also

we use it in all different Teams,

so you have AI in support that
handles first level support,

you have chat, GPT and and Bard and
so forth being used in the marketing

team, you have co pilot being used

in the development team, all of
these helped us still be on a

growth path without having to
massively increase the team.

And we could also manage
to do it in less time.

So I think there is a convergence of
technologies here that help you still

boost productivity and decrease effort.

And it works for us because we're a SaaS,
our model is more inbound and low touch,

so we don't have a team
of SDRs and all of that.

We can automate a lot of the
processes, and we can also do it on

our own schedule now that being said,

there are tons of businesses and
tons of areas where it's not that

easy to implement and where we're

adding a 40 work week would mean
hiring additionally, actually.

That's why I wanted to be very
open about the fact that I'm not

completely sure it works for everyone

with the same efficiency
that it does for us.

Yeah.

Prateek Panda: Got it.

Makes sense, Vlad.

Going back to the, the personal
challenges discussion that we were

talking about, I think one other thing

that plays a really important role
in feeling better and having someone

to talk to is the role of community.

And the reason I bring that up
is because, You launched TEDx

Vienna and you've grown it into

a big initiative and that becomes
a community as well, right?

Like you have some purpose
that is more community driven

that helps you feel better.

But there's also this set of
people that have similar intent.

And you meet a lot more interesting
people in the journey as well, right?

How did you go about starting TEDx Vienna?

And where does it stand today?

Vlad Gozman: Yeah, so when I moved to
Vienna to Austria back in early 2010, as

I told you, I just picked the city because

I really enjoyed a few days
here, but I didn't know anyone.

So I was a complete stranger.

To be very frank, I was also quickly
confronted with a lot of Xenophobia.

I was also confronted with a lot of
hatred towards foreigners and migration.

Austria back then, I would say still,
but not to the same extent was very

protectionist of its work labor market.

So these things pushed me to be an
entrepreneur faster than I wanted.

Even though I had been an entrepreneur
in in Romania, my plan was to move

here and, similar to the playbook

that I had in Bucharest, to work
with a few entrepreneurs and

then get entrepreneurial myself.

But I was forced to be
entrepreneurial from day one.

With TEDx, it was very early days.

I think the TEDx program
was like half a year old.

And I had seen that there had been
a TEDx event planned in Bucharest.

So I knew about Ted.

Ted was already sharing videos
online from 2007 on, I think.

So I had seen a few TED talks
and through a few friends, I got

a a sense of what TEDx meant.

So being the franchise, the non
profit franchise, if you will.

And then I searched for it because

I was thinking, oh, this is
the perfect place to volunteer.

So I would get acquainted to the right
people and know the community locally.

And I didn't find anything.

I wrote to Ted and I asked him
like, who's doing this in Vienna?

And they got back to me saying something
along the lines of, it's probably you.

So I I stumbled into it.

Then I got the license myself and
I set up a nonprofit and actually

the first team was all Austrian.

It really opened up
the local scene for me.

And fast forward a few years, my now
wife joined the team as a volunteer.

So we got to know each other through that.

So the community aspect of it definitely
was amazing on so many levels for me.

And, as you said, I think it was always a
backdrop when times got tough during all

the different entrepreneurial ventures

that I've started, it was always a
fallback, a community where I came back

and this is a safety net, if
you will, for me mentally.

And then it became also one emotionally
with my wife Alina, who I met

through it and who actually then took

over the reins and made the next
step in TEDxVienna's evolution.

Which we're not, she's
not doing a TEDx anymore.

She's actually doing the first
TED in Europe this year around AI.

Yeah, short plug here.

October 17th to 19th, Vienna,
we're bringing the voices, the

global voices of AI to Vienna

to discuss the future of
artificial intelligence.

Prateek Panda: That's amazing.

I have been to Europe a
few times, but not enough.

So I'm going to add this
to my calendar as well.

It's a nice way to come meet
interesting people like you and

listen to others about AI, but

I could use an excuse to spend
some time in Europe as well.

Vlad Gozman: It would
be amazing to have you.

Prateek Panda: Yeah.

Thank you, Vlad.

Before we sign off anything you
would like to share as a person,

as an individual, where do

you get your source of knowledge,
learning, any newsletters,

podcasts that you would recommend?

Yeah.

Vlad Gozman: So I'd definitely
would recommend a few podcasts

such as Off To The Valley and 20VC

is another one that I
find really interesting.

Lenny does a great podcast as well.

And there are tons of podcasts are
definitely have become a big part of the

professional information channels for me.

And it's amazing how
deep they go nowadays.

So you, at the beginning of
podcasts, I think a lot of times you

scratch the surface of of topics.

And now it seems that they go more
and more vertical and that becomes very

interesting because you can go niche.

So I think podcasts are
on the top of my list.

I try to read Definitely.

I try to read, just don't get the time.

And this is the next habit that I want to
start forming after reading Atomic Habits.

There is a certain recipe to
it, which which I applied also

to the to the morning routine.

So maybe applying it to reading as well.

But I think also additionally to
getting inspiration and through TED,

we also are in touch with researchers

and the latest in the technology field
and specifically AI but I think it's

also important to, to disconnect.

So if you have an outlet that
is not tied to your professional

sphere, I would highly suggest

to incorporate that into a
routine, to completely disconnect.

And oftentimes, the best ideas
that I had both professionally

and personally came from times

where I wasn't familiar in a
context that had nothing to do

with anything else, I would say.

Prateek Panda: Yeah, and I think
that is spot on and I think that's a

really good takeaway at the end of all

of this is that true disconnection
from everything else.

And I remember over the last
few years, I used to take these

coupler day short breaks for a
camping trip and most of these places

would not have cell phone reception.

You are forced to disconnect and it
can be so amazing if you can just

drop your phone for a few days.

That itself makes you feel
like you're in a very different

place and so much calmer, right?

Like when you don't have to keep checking
on calls and texts and social media.

So I think that true disconnection
is definitely very helpful.

Thank you so much, Vlad,
for spending time with us.

It was amazing having this
conversation with you.

Thanks a lot.

Vlad Gozman: Thank you
for having me, Prateek.

I really enjoyed it.

Prateek Panda: And that
wraps up today's episode.

Before we sign off, I would like
to thank you for your support

and thanks for tuning in.

If you loved today's episode.

Then don't forget to subscribe to this
podcast and never miss an episode.

Be kind, be happy, challenge the norm.

I'll see you folks again for the next one.